Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Babajide Ogunbiyi (3rd Nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:11, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Babajide Ogunbiyi

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Article fails N:FOOTY as he has not played in a fully-pro league and he fails WP:GNG. PROD was contested by User:Gri3720 for no reason. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 21:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 21:46, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 July 31. Snotbot t • c » 22:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - per nom. He has still not received significant coverage, and is still yet to play in a fully pro league, meaning this article still fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:13, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep for now. Major League Soccer is the highest level in this sport in the United States and Canada, and though he hasn't appeared on the field in that league yet, he's still part of the New York Red Bulls roster. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 23:39, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Does not matter. Many players have played in MLS and never got a game in. Although the chance is unlikely for Jide it could still happen. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 00:44, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:57, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This is a silly argument. He's a significant signing for the New York Red Bulls and will certainly see the field. He was a significant player in college and played in Denmark. Seems a no-brainer to keep it around for the time being. Pavlovscat456 (talk) 03:52, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Now who does not know the rules around here. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 04:59, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - not sure if he obviously fails WP:GNG. There's a fair bit of news coverage over the last few years in various languages. Hack (talk) 07:37, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with this comment, there seems plenty on this player with a simple Google search, particularly with reference to his move to NYRB. In addition, although he has not yet played in a fully professional league, he has played for a fully professional club and has been in and around various Nigerian, so it would seem likely that he does fulfil WP:GNG. Weak keep and at worst userfy as it seems likely he will fulfill WP:NSPORT in the near future. Fenix down (talk) 09:14, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Comment: Nominator might wish to consider editing their nomination following review of WP:WEASEL, words such as "obviously" are inherently subjective. In addition, PRODs can be contested for any reason and there is no requirement to give a reason according to WP:PROD. Finally Arsenalkid, you have already been blocked for a substantial period of time for edit warring, it might be advisable now you have returned from that block to tone the aggression down, there is no need to add comments proclaiming that other editors "do not know the rules", particularly when you make claims such as "obviously fails GNG" about without stating how. Fenix down (talk) 09:14, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: My reasoning for that comment was due to this User_talk:Gri3720#Babajide_Ogunbiyi (see the opening sentence). Yes I admit I was childish and should not have done that. Also the reason it fails GNG is because there is only one source on the entire article. If someone can find more and add that than yes I will not say that it obviously fails but at this moment it does obviously fail. Also I understand I was blocked for edit warring last month and so far I have kept away from them and asked questions before doing any actions. Trust me I have learned and seen the what can happen (vandalism etc). --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 09:43, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to re-read WP:GNG as your interpretation of it is not correct. An article does not fail GNG becuase the article itself is only from one source, but because there are not sufficient sources externally to support notability, so no the article in itself does not "obviously" fail GNG. If your interpretation of GNG was correct then the thousands of unsourced articles and those reliant on only one source would be summarily deleted.

In addition, the comment you left on my talk page stating that you did not even look at google to see if there was a possibility of fulfilling GNG through external sources is concerning. Whilst a simple Google search is by no means sufficient to esablish GNG, a nomination and an admission that you did not take even the most cursory steps to confirm GNG is to me quite worrying.

Whilst I do not intend this comment to suggest the article should definitely be kept, I think the nomination now appears so weak and the process entered into by the nominator so cursory that the nomination should be withdrawn. If there is a genuine case that there is insufficient external sources for this footballer then it should be nominated again, but in a much more robust manner. Fenix down (talk) 13:36, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay fine. So you will just stop complaining and I can stop being a troll I will withdraw from the conversation and remove obviously. To be honest I actually copy and pasted the heading from a another AfD I did earlier which was obviously failing GNG but again no excuse. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I believe the article should be kept as the player played on a fully professional club and was on the clubs books as a notable player, additionally other sources have been added to the page, including a trial stint with German side in which the clubs negotiated a transfer fee for the player but the transaction never went thru. Elop76 1 August 2012
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 08:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - it may be worth getting some input from a Danish-speaker about the extent of coverage in reliable sources for Ogunbiyi's stint at Viborg. I'm leaning toward delete and userfy as the English-language WP:RS coverage appears a bit weak (all of this could be rendered moot if he appears on Saturday). Hack (talk) 09:13, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Well that depends on how Red Bulls see the fitness of the team. I still see the back four as Solli, Conde, Holgersson, Miller with Lade playing in midfield and then if Barklage is fit then Solli on the bench. Really doubt we will see him till later this month at least. I would expect with his injury and suspensions before signing that he would stay in New York and train. Be available for August 10th. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 09:21, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - That sounds like WP:CRYSTAL to me, Arsenalkid. Mentoz86 (talk) 21:33, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep:~~ I think it a bit strange that a professional player who has played with a fully pro side, which in the past has had success at the Danish top flight, has produced international players fro Denmark, etc. is being being considered for deletion. The sources on the page both in us media and danish papers should be enough to show he is a pro player. He is not an amatuer soccer play and Viborg is not an amatuer soccer side in the least.Elop76 2 August 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.212.191.147 (talk) 13:22, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not !vote more than once. Sir Sputnik (talk) 04:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to this to see how he is technically not notable by wikipedia standards. Just like Jeremy Vuolo who is with a professional team and was with a club that was in the Finnish top division, still does not mean he is a notable player. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 15:03, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why are the rules different for basketball? He is notable in that he plays for a pro club. He also appeared in a Danish Cup match, would that qualify? --Elop76

The consensus is that only footballers that have played in a fully profesional league are presumed notable under WP:NSPORTS. Given he falls short of that requirement, it must be proven that he meets the requirements of WP:GNG. Hack (talk) 17:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the sources in the article to me it seems he does meet the requirements of WP:GNG. --Elop76 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.212.191.147 (talk) 18:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - If we put the WP:FPL-list aside, this guy have been one of best players at the 16th best club Denmark in 2011-12, which is the 11th best ~~league~~ country in Europe according to the UEFA ranking. This guy might not pass WP:GNG by a large margin, but just about enough to have an article. Mentoz86 (talk) 21:33, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Danish 1st Division is the second tier... Hack (talk) 00:46, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:31, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I know, but Viborg finished 4th in the 2011-12 Danish 1st Division, plus the 12 teams in the Superliga, which might mean that Viborg was the 16th best club in Denmark that year. Struck "league" and replaced it with country in my original comment. However, what I'm trying to say is that he is notable because he passes WP:GNG, not because he "almost" passes WP:NFOOTBALL. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:17, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:NFOOTY as he has never played in a fully pro league (comments like "he's expected to play in the near future" are WP:CRYSTAL) and fails WP:GNG due to largely routine media coverage. – Kosm1 fent 03:39, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
comment He got some media coverage in Denmark, and was quite popular in Viborg where he played apparently. I think that if taking Danish language sources into consideration he may pass the GNG criterion.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:18, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets WP:GNG with various articles in various countries over the years. And even if he didn't, I hardly see the point of getting rid of an article that's a major signing of a top team, who will likely be playing within days. It's just a waste of everyone's time and energy; it's a shame people weren't more interested in improving the project, rather than simply trying to police rules beyond common sense. Nfitz (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Meh. There are 14 sources. 4 sources are to do with his high-school and college career which I see as routine and alumni info. Another 5 have to do with the same topic (2 have to do with him aiming high at Viborg with almost the same wording, while another 3 have to do with him signing for Red Bulls. I still would not consider this page notable. Specially as so far his impact is small (I am being harsh however as there has only been 2 games yet he is not on the bench in either one). Also why should he be an exception. There are many players like him in other leagues that have been debated before. Just because he signs for an MLS club does not mean he should have an article automatically, especially if the club he signed for was not notable. I could do the same with Jeremy Vuolo (who had a similar AfD as this one here). --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think I will use my dad to convince Panathinaikos to sign me for a week, so I can legitimately have an article which doesn't pass any notability guideline!!! (since, according to Nfitz, it's okay to not pass GNG or NFOOTY and have an article) Hooray me!!! – Kosm1 fent 05:37, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arsenalkid700, under WP:GNG, the references proving notability don't have to appear in the article. Hack (talk) 05:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article meets GNG. Player is addressed in detail by a number of reliable sources. Eldumpo (talk) 11:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.