Jump to content

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ayatollah Khamenei's letter to students at U.S. universities

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to Ali Khamenei. Merger with additional or alternative targets can be discussed editorially. After discarding clearly canvassed votes and ones not based on P&G, there is a rough consensus to keep the content, but not as a standalone article. Concerns about the merged article size are valid, but are secondary to notability issues. Owen× ☎ 11:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ayatollah Khamenei's letter to students at U.S. universities[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

Ayatollah Khamenei's letter to students at U.S. universities (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Does not need to be a separate article and not notable. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, but article requires significant improvement.
Coverage that is at least potentially RS (not necessarily complete) which is not currently included in the article:
FortunateSons (talk) 07:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP:NOTNEWS Ladsgroupoverleg 09:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The subjects passes the WP:GNG criteria certainly. Besides the sources listed by FortunateSons there are other reliable sources like Newsweek (another article by Newsweek), the hill, and Fox News. Moreover, the supreme leader is considered notable enough so his letters sparks significant coverage by the sources. Btw, I created the page. --Mhhossein talk 09:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 May 31. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 16:57, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military, Politics, Education, Iran, Israel, Palestine, and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete this does seem to fail WP:NOTNEWS at the moment, needs sustained coverage. SportingFlyer T·C 18:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Khamenei's letter went out on May 30, and you say on May 31 that there is not "sustained coverage"? VR (Please ping on reply) 03:47, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I said it needs sustained coverage, and the article's pretty bad. Furthermore, all of the sources found so far are from last month - it certainly hasn't been very SUSTAINED yet... SportingFlyer T·C 22:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you are not talking about a daily coverage or we need to AFD many articles on that basis, but still one can see fresh sources published on June 2nd, June 3rd, June 4th, and today (June 5th). Mhhossein talk 06:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't need daily coverage, no one is suggesting that. None of those are really directly on topic, though. SportingFlyer T·C 05:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I pity the closer on this, but it's now 8 June and there hasn't been sustained coverage of the event, meaning WP:NOTNEWS still applies. Many of the keep !votes are simply "it's important" without addressing our policies. SportingFlyer T·C 17:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Can you tell us what "sustained coverage" means to you? Are you suggesting everyday or every week there must be a new news article published on the same topic? I find it unreasonable for you to demand "sustained coverage" just 1 week after the topic comes into existence. WP:EVENTCRITERIA suggest considering things on a "few years" time frame. VR (Please ping on reply) 23:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:NOTNEWS is about significant coverage, not "sustained" coverage. The topic unambiguously passes WP:GNG as multiple reliable sources cover it. It's very likely that it will have some enduring significance to future coverage of student protests given the sources already used by the article. --PKMNLives (talk) 23:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Per NOTNEWS, "most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." It's been pretty clear since the start that this was just something that happened to be in the news - if this were significant, we should already have seen things published about it beyond the news cycle, which hasn't really happened apart from an op-ed or two. SportingFlyer T·C 06:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is also no reason why it can't be mentioned elsewhere. A sentence on his article is fine. SportingFlyer T·C 06:04, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason is enduring notability. Take the latest source covering the subject just yesterday (June 13rd). --Mhhossein talk 07:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes? We don't have articles because they may achieve notability in the future. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Agree, but this topic already passses WP:GNG, thanks to the reliable sources deeply covering it. --Mhhossein talk 04:44, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Ayatollah Khamenei. The letter is a work of a notable person, not a notable work. BD2412 T 01:01, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, it passes WP:GNG. As more news comes in, it can be improved to pass the enduring notability as well. Ghazaalch (talk) 07:15, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP:NOTNEWS Hosseinronaghi (talk) 14:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep ofcourse https://search.brave.com/search?q=khamenei+letter+american+student&source=android many sources have written Baratiiman (talk) 16:07, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not Fawiki [1] Baratiiman (talk) 16:20, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP:NOTNEWS This article is not important enough to be on Wikipedia (Encyclopaedia's article). It's more like propaganda. Déjà vu • ✉ 00:24, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For those who point to WP:NOTNEWS; The letter was issued on 30 May 2024 with a handful of reliable sources covering it deeply (listed by me and FortunateSons) hence establishing the WP:Notability. Now let's see if NOTNEWS is even applicable here:
    • Original reporting: Easily rebutted. The current article is written based on secondary reliable sources, so there is no original reporting.
    • News reports: "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events." I wonder how users realized, less than 24 hours [2] after the official publication of the letter, that the subject does not have an "enduring notability"! This is while some sources are published after 48 hours ago [3], let alone those published some hours ago [4].
    • Who's who and Celebrity gossip and diary: Easily rebutted. The current article is not even about an individual.
    WP:GNG is passed and the enduring notability assessment requires more time to pass. --Mhhossein talk 13:35, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note to the closing admin: Multiple users are coming from Fa wiki with some having their first AFD !vote here. There seems to be an attempt aimed at defecting the consensus building process here. --Mhhossein talk 12:52, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also notice this one please. --Mhhossein talk 13:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Such interactions by the head of state of a theocracy to a significant section of Western society is quite rare. As a comment it would be nice to have this in Wikisource if applicable. Borgenland (talk) 17:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge about one sentence into Ayatollah Khamenei, where it is entirely missing, as an unjustified SPINOUT. No objection to delete either, yet merge is the optimum. gidonb (talk) 02:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Ali Khamenei is already ~10,000 words in prose. According to WP:SIZERULE it is somewhere between "Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed" and "Probably should be divided or trimmed". So merging an article there would not be advisable.VR (Please ping on reply) 04:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hence my proposal to merge about one sentence. The fact that an article is long is not a reason to disconnect it from the present. gidonb (talk) 00:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the article proposed for deletion is 521 words currently. It makes no sense to bloat an article that (per WP:SIZERULE) must already have WP:SPINOUT articles.VR (Please ping on reply) 23:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. gidonb (talk) 00:02, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I only cite above to indicate that there is expectation that this article too should have enduring notabilityVR (Please ping on reply) 23:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Merge. WP:NOTNEWS and also WP:NOPAGE. this article only makes sense of broader contexts and is better covered in the responses section of 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses or in Ali Khamenei User:Sawerchessread (talk) 17:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then you may need to observe some of the recent sources [5]. --Mhhossein talk 06:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with To the Youth in Europe and North America and To the Youth in Western Countries, Khamenei's previous "open letters". Other than the summary of the article, little is said beyond that it sparked mixed reactions on social media, a phrase which applies to almost everything. Walsh90210 (talk) 23:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet and several different Redirect/Merge target articles suggested.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete WP:NOTNEWS --AriyaNavid (talk) 08:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: The title's notability is proved by sources pointed by other users. We can have a standalone article. The subject had a sustained coverage although the letter was released less than 2 weeks ago.Ali Ahwazi (talk) 09:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Yes, Wikipedia is not news, but if Khameini's other open letters or Osama Bin Laden's Letter to America are relevant for inclusion, then this should be relevant for inclusion as well, as the Supreme Leader of Iran making an explicit statement of support for the 2024 college encampments, which are obviously notable. The sources in the article are enough to say that there was significant coverage, to the point where original research is unnecessary. -PKMNLives (talk) 19:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to relevant articles, far too soon to have an article. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given the dozens of reliable sources covering it during a wide time span, too soon or merge does not seem applicable here since the subject passes GNG. --Mhhossein talk 04:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yet another source covering the topic, attesting the enduring notability. The work is published on 13 June 2024. --Mhhossein talk 07:58, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ayatollah_Khamenei%27s_letter_to_students_at_U.S._universities&oldid=1229195582"