Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aruvikkuzhy Falls

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. —Darkwind (talk) 08:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aruvikkuzhy Falls[edit]

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unable to find RS to establish GNG. looks to me like the sole mention of this outside wikipedia is from a posting by "ecotourindia" on a forum website. No indication that this even exists. [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 05:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 05:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 05:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as possible hoax unless reliable sources can be produced, lickety-split. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:19, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Maybe someone from Wikipedia:WikiProject India can sort this, provide valuable assistance. Dloh cierekim 11:52, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lickitty-split? Perhaps we can await feedback from WP:India? Maybe we can let it run the full duration and I really would suggest that a search on Google will suggest it is not a hoax. Dloh cierekim 12:20, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep On the one hand, nominator tags for speedy deletion as promotional. On the other says no indication it even exists. I find a mention on Google books in a book about the Waterfalls of Keral after about 10 seconds of looking. At what is a promotional site for tourists, I find another mention of the falls, so I think it's safe to say they exist. There are other potential sources in English to sift through via G-hits, and that is just in English. As the falls are in India, it may be that more sourcing exists in another language. This is a geographical landmark and as such is notable if it exists. It would probably have been better to ask at WP:India for help with the article and then to seek deletion if that were unavailing. Dloh cierekim 12:17, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

addendum Gets a hit on Google Earth. Dloh cierekim 12:26, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first link is published by "LLC books", and the book in question is listed as 46 pages. Looking at their other books on gbooks, it appears that they specialize in "books" that are merely lists of things like names. (for example). They do appear to have a couple of non-list books, but I don't get the sense that they do much in the way of editorial control or fact checking. We can go to RSN for additional opinions about this, and I think that might be useful anyway.

The other reference you use is a tourism website, and non-RS. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 17:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Books LLC, it is a Wikipedia mirror, so less than no-good. Chris857 (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lickety-split [1], [2]. —SpacemanSpiff 13:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first link does not mention waterfalls at all.

The second link mentions "waterfalls", lowercase, non-proper-noun, so there is some mention that there are waterfalls there. This article is putatively about a specific waterfall, and there is another waterfall, presumably in the area, which shares a name (Aruvikkuzhi Waterfalls). Note that that waterfall is listed as "not to be confused with" and is also Capitalized, as per a Proper Noun. I do not believe the hindu.com article refers to either of these falls in particular, though it would be usable as a citation on a page about Aruvikkuzhi that mentioned that there were waterfalls there. I still don't think this is enough to satisfy GNG. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 17:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would stop digging now. —SpacemanSpiff 17:50, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. please elaborate, on my talk page if necessary. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 18:11, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think geographic features need meet the GNG. The problems are two fold- is this an alternate spelling? Can sourcing be found? I've asked WP:India to do the lifting on sourcing. We'll know more if they can establish that it is not a misspelling and maybe they can find good sourcing for it. PS, one of those links refers to the other similarly named falls that this might be. That's the trouble with translating Indian languages into an overlaid English official language. Dloh cierekim 20:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources I've listed here refer to this falls, while the two that I've listed at the other AfD, refer to that falls. There are of course multiple transliteration spelling variations, both official and unofficial; to complicate matters, the name is just a descriptive, making it all too common. —SpacemanSpiff 06:50, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given the similarities and difficulty in distinguishing them, is there a possibility in your mind of a merge? keeping multiple articles with such thin content and just a couple of spelling variations seems silly to me, and I am still not convinced they are notable, personally. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 07:09, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:Hi! The website of Thottappuzhassery panchayat (on which it is situated) says about it: "ഈ ഗ്രാമത്തിലെ മറ്റൊരു മനോഹര സ്ഥലമാണ് “അരുവിക്കുഴി”. വളരെ ആഴത്തിലേക്ക് ചിന്നിച്ചിതറി ചാടുന്ന ഇവിടുത്തെ വെള്ളച്ചാട്ടം കണ്ണിനും കാതിനും കുളിര്‍മ്മ ഏകുന്നു"[3](Malayalam) (Translation: Another beautiful place in this village is "Aruvikkuzhi(/y)". The waterfall in here, which shatters and jumps into the deep, gives a cooling effect to the eyes and ears). Hence this is definitely not a hoax and The Hindu coverages must be referring to this waterfall itself.[4] But, the distance between these two waterfalls (using Google Maps) is less than 30 km.
Regarding the spelling, keralatourism.org uses Aruvikkuzhi for both the waterfalls.[5][6] (not sure how reliable it is, though). This government letter uses 'Aruvikkuzhi waterfalls' for the waterfall at Kottayam. Thanks.···Vanischenu^「m/_Talk」 15:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Note that four other Wikipedias (Urdu, Farsi, Tochiki [?], and one other, mzn) have articles on this falls; that doesn't guarantee its existence, but it makes it more likely. None of them have any sourcing except for this page. However, since at least Urdu's spoken in India (and perhaps Tochiki and the other one; never heard of them, so I don't know), these falls might have a native name with a standard spelling, unlike the non-native name subject to multiple transliterations such as "Aruvikkuzhy" or "Aruvikkuzhi". Perhaps assistance could be requested of people who speak one or more of those languages, since unfortunately SpacemanSpiff's impressive array of languages doesn't include any of them. Nyttend (talk) 03:16, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't exactly look like an WP:RS to me. Just sayin. -- [ UseTheCommandLine ~/talk ]# ▄ 04:24, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, I know that. My point was completely different. Nyttend (talk) 12:13, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Trevj (talk) 12:06, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Nyttend:Unfortunately, all of those articles in other four languages were created by importing bots (mzn by Amolbot and the other three by DarafshBot).···Vanischenu^「m/_Talk」 14:42, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The website of Deepika newspaper (Malayalam) has a local report on Pathanamthitta's "Tourism Projects are sleeping in files"[7]. The Aruvikkuzhy(/i) waterfall is discussed in it with importance. It explicitly states that the DTPC building was built near this waterfall (and that this waterfall is at Thottappuzhassery Panchayath, Kozhencherry, Pathanamthitta.)···Vanischenu^「m/_Talk」 13:43, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 04:04, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Just so that everyone is aware, there are three articles in English from The Hindu about this waterfalls already included in the article and one Malayalam article from the village panchayat and one Malayalam article from Deepika (newspaper) listed here on the AfD. —SpacemanSpiff 06:05, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.