Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alrosa Villa

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Cirt (talk) 16:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alrosa Villa

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Article is about a small bar in Ohio that happened to be the scene of a murder. The bar itself doesn't appear to have received significant coverage in reliable sources. Most coverage I could find was soley the mention of the business being the location of the murder and bare background info. Appears to fail WP:CORP. Article has been tagged for no references since 2006. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This book does appear to give very significant coverage about the location. Even though the book is about the metal scene/murder, the coverage to the bar is nonetheless significant. This book calls the venue "legendary." Billboard also gives good coverage about the bar.[1] There is more significant coverage about the club from Fox News, three years after the shooting. [2]--Oakshade (talk) 18:19, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How much of that coverage is related to the murder? I really discount the book because the book is about the murder and covers the bar because it was the location of the murder (talking about the setting), not because the place was so important without the murder. The Rolling Stone article was about the band and only talks about the bar because of.....yeah, the murder. Had the murder not taken place there, the bar wouldn't have been mentioned in the article at all. The FNC story? Again, because of the murder. In this case, talking about how the band involved in another bar death was booked into this one, the scene of....yeah, the murder. Everything about this bar is only because it was the site of a murder. Infamous maybe, but not really notable. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:34, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In that line of logic, the Enola Gay shouldn't have an article because its notability is solely related to the Hiroshima Atomic Bomb dropping, or the Texas School Book Depository shouldn't have an article because its notability is solely based on the Kennedy assassination. It doesn't matter if one event began a topic's notability, but that a topic is notable. The murder inspired reliable sources to write significant coverage of this club, which by the way is listed as the primary reason for this afd ("The bar itself doesn't appear to have received significant coverage in reliable sources"). Since this topic has in fact has received significant coverage, it's not clear why this afd is still going. --Oakshade (talk) 03:18, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Except for the pesky detail that those examples were involved in historically significant events. Francine Hughes bedroom was the setting for a book, a movie and numerous news stories, but I wouldn't see much case for that article either. And the one event didn't begin the bars notability, it is the only factor in the bars notability. Describing the setting of an event isn't significant coverage. Regardless, you think GNG gets everything under the sun into wikipedia. I don't. We'll just disagree and see what the others have to say. The AfD is still going on because....well, not everyone sees things the same way you do. At best, this should be a redirect to the victims bio. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:04, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:N. What happened at the bar is notable. The bar is not. Dlabtot (talk) 18:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Location is a longstanding venue in Columbus which has seen many notable acts over its decades of existance. That might be shaky by itself but with the murder, any doubt about notability is put to rest. It's not "just a small bar in Ohio" as the OP suggests.--Analogue Kid (talk) 18:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So notability is now transferable? Since notable people played there, it makes the small bar notable and we don't need significant coverage to accomplish notability. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Significant coverage is given to this topic. You just have issue of why it received significant coverage. --Oakshade (talk) 21:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Describing the scene of a notable event isn't significant coverage. Giving a little background info on the setting isn't significant. As I said before, the events that took place in Francine Hughes' bedroom have been the topic of a best selling book, the subject of a movie and covered in many news articles. The bedroom was depicted on film and described in the book. Yet the bedroom itself isn't notable. The event is notable. If this were historic, like Lincoln's assassination, the location might be more relevant and notable. But this is a small bar in Ohio, not Fords Theater and Dimebag Daryl wasn't the President of the United States. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, describing the club in great detail is significant. And there is a lot of background info, not "a little." If you don't like why there is significant coverage, that's fine. But if you claim there is no significant coverage of this topic, you will be called on it.--Oakshade (talk) 22:04, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't work on "like" or "don't like" (despite your bad faith allegation). I don't view it as significant. I view it as solely peripheral to the notable event. Minus talking about the event, those descriptions (and that's what they are, descriptions) wouldn't see the light of day. Have you seen any of this "significant" that wasn't more about the murder than the place? I haven't seen any yet. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:27, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Rolling Stone article barely covers the bar. It talks about it in a couple of paragraphs, mostly describing their security issues and describing the low stage that lacked barricades and how that made it easier to commit the crime. After reading it again today, it looks even less significant than when I read it the first time. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Of course the place that a murder occurs will be described in a book about the murder, usually in some detail. So will the people in the murders and victims lives, and various events earlier associated them them, and the weapons, and the bios of the policemen, and so on. All of this is background, and none of it gets a separate article except in the most unusual circumstance when the location becomes for some reason way actually famous, and people write about it specifically. DGG ( talk ) 02:45, 3 February 2010 (UTC) .[reply]
Delete or Redirect to Dimebag Darrell, or A Vulgar Display of Power: Courage and Carnage at the Alrosa Villa or Nathan Gale, the gunman. Actually, Nathan Gale should be deleted under WP:BIO1E. The murder of Dimebag Darrell has generated a lot of coverage, a documentary, and yet I never recall hearing a peep about the venue. Had it been well-known, I think that would have been mentioned. Abductive (reasoning) 06:13, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.