Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alpine, Virginia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Rocky Point, Virginia. It is clear that consensus is that the topic is not notable. However, there are strong arguments for both the "delete" and "re-direct" options. I am judging consensus to be "re-direct" because I find compelling arguments for the re-direct to be stronger. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 20:42, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alpine, Virginia[edit]

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I think this one is a non-notable rail location, although it wouldn't hurt to get more eyes on this, as the rail ones sometimes have coverage my sourcing patterns don't turn up. Topos originally have Rocky Point, Virginia here, until 1961 when the name Alpine shows up and the Rocky Point name moves to a rail junction a little bit to the west. Topos showing the name "Alpine" have a single building and a rail siding on the C & O there.

Searching for this is a bit difficult due to the commonness of the name. I'm getting a single reference to Alpine is a list of communities in a county history that doesn't say anything at all about Alpine beyond that, a reference to the Alpine site in a list of new stops on a historic trail, and references in old railroad directories that indicate that there was neither a post office nor a telegraph office here. Maybe others can do better with searching, but I'm seeing a non-notable rail stop here. Hog Farm _Talk 06:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm _Talk 06:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm _Talk 06:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Upon looking at Google Maps, there are other things in the area named for it; Alpine Boat Landing and Alpine Farms. So it appears there's a proper community here. Waddles 🗩 🖉 16:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @WaddlesJP13: - if you could provide actual sources, that would be appreciated. I don't we can base an article on Alpine, Virginia was listed on railroad time tables during the 1910s. It had neither a post office nor a telegraph office. The 1961 USGS topographic map shows a single building and a railroad siding here. According to Google Maps, the Alpine Boat Ramp is in the area. Hog Farm _Talk 17:24, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Hog Farm: Google Maps and OpenStreetMap can be used as references in articles, I believe. If they're labeled on the map I am quite sure its sufficient. There are thousands and thousands of other railroad sidings with articles on Wikipedia, and some are mass-created like this one while some actually have some minimal effort. I think the article is worth keeping if the nearby places bearing the name of the locality are noted and the article is brought beyond just a single sentence. Alpine Farms seems to have a couple proper references about it, but I'm not too sure about Alpine Boat Landing. Waddles 🗩 🖉 17:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - I will caution when using Google Maps - Google maps is known to scrape a lot of names/descriptions from Wikipedia. So the name appearing on Google Maps should be taken with a grain of salt. Hog Farm _Talk 17:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WaddlesJP13, according to the Sources section of WP:NGEO, maps and tables are not to be considered when establishing notability. GNG is the standard for places without legal recognition, and we've been systematically deleting rail siding articles for a few years now. –dlthewave ☎ 20:35, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: USGS topo maps from 1894 show the coordinates as a road and some train tracks by a river. The same is shown in 1907, plus some houses, a couple new roads and a bridge; there's no "Alpine" label, but there's a "Rockypoint" label. By 1961, there are fewer houses present (or perhaps fewer are marked), but there's now some quarries to the north, and the "Alpine" label is present next to "Rocky Point". It seems to stay about the same through 1999, and the Alpine / Rocky Point labels stay where they are through 2019. I don't see a whole lot on Google's satellite maps in the area. Perhaps someone can find something useful in historical archives (pinging @Firsfron: and @Cxbrx:). jp×g 23:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Rocky Point, Virginia. Checking Cram's 1887/1890, Cram's 1900, and Rand McNally 1925, 1890 does list both Rocky Point and Alpine. Rocky Point had 15 residents in 1900 and 14 in 1925. Alpine's population is listed as X, indicating a rail spot or post location only. PostalHistory.com indicates there was never an Alpine post office.[1] Rocky Point has a post office from 1852 to 1944 [2]. Both Alpine and Rocky Point were stops on the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway,[3] but Alpine had no express office. Alpine was approximately at mile marker 186, with Rocky Point at 187, but the sites are actually just a half a mile apart. All but one house in 1907 were at Rocky Point, with one lone house (possibly just the rail station) at Alpine. In 1961, Alpine still has just one house. Alpine seems to have been a rail stop, nothing more. But readers searching for Alpine, which shows up on maps for over 100 years, should be directed to the nearest actual settlement, Rocky Point, with a brief mention of the Alpine rail station and boat landing. Firsfron of Ronchester 06:29, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect, per Firsfron. jp×g 07:58, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Appears to just be a rail siding, not finding any sources that would justify a redirect although there are a lot of winter sports related false hits. Will reconsider if GNG coverage can be found. –dlthewave ☎ 21:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
leaning delete The later maps that show both points make it clear that Rocky Point was then the junction and Alpine the passing siding (actually a small yard for some time). As such, I don't think the latter is notable. That said, the older topos show the Rocky Point label over at Alpine's location, so I'm not totally against a redirect. Mangoe (talk) 15:33, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.