Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alpha Chi Alpha

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. moink 01:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Alpha Chi Alpha[edit]

There have been many articles on Wikipedia wherein a fraternity or sorority has written an individual chapter and the article has been subsequently deleted.
Refer to

If one looks at this proposed article for deletion it is very well written and done in a manual style fitting Wikipedia, however I don't see this as a strong point as to why this article should stay. There already exists an article where Dartmouth fraternities and sororities are described. (Dartmouth College Greek organizations). So why is there a need to have a seperate article for each fraternity chapter? It seems like an overkill. Granted, these chapters are old and notable but then again there are quite literally hundreds if not thousands of chapters of any national fraternity which bear the same characteristic. What's to prevent the floodgates from opening and have many individuals use Wikipedia as some de facto free web service such as geocities.com to advertise their greek chapters?

I am also nominating the following related pages because of the same reason listed above:

Kappa Kappa Kappa
Phi Tau
† Ðy§ep§ion † 03:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The references you describe are to individual chapters of national fraternities. However, these are local fraternities without association to any national organization. They also all have significance to the campus. Phi Tau was the first coed house and one of the early fraternities on campus. Kappa Kappa Kappa was even the second local fraternity in the nation. --_└^Smith120bh/_TALK^┐ 03:46, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I agree with Smith120bh. The arguments against the pages you reference are that they are chapters of national organizations. The same cannot be said of Phi Tau, Kappa Kappa Kappa, or Alpha Chi Alpha. They are indeed old and notable, as Dysepsion has already conceded, but he is in error when he suggests that there are hundreds or thousands of chapters bearing the same characteristic. They are unique. Tri-Kap is the 2nd oldest fraternity in the country. Phi Tau was the first coed fraternity at Dartmouth College, all the more notable given the initial acrimony when the College first integrated. Given that the primary argument for deletion was based on the erroneous presumption that these articles refer to one chapter out of hundreds or more, when in fact, these are unique organizations, I ask that the articles on Phi Tau, Kappa Kappa Kappa, and Alpha Chi Alpha be kept. --Jedsa 04:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. What I don't understand is why are there seperate articles for these fraternities when one describes them already exists? (Dartmouth College Greek organizations). Also, is the fact that they are "local" the only saving characteristic to keep these articles? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dysepsion (talk • contribs) .

Comment (relevant precedents) - Dartmouth College student groups has a number of relevant precedents here, where sections were moved out of that article into their own article. Dartmouth College Marching Band (which has AfD-decided keep precedents amongst it and other Ivy League marching bands), Dartmouth Jack O'Lantern was given its own article (and has passed AfD proposals I think twice now). Collis Center. The Dartmouth (also passed an AfD). And the fact that they are local is a factual statement that your proposal has erred with. The organizations have historical campus significance that has been briefly summarized already by me and other voters. --_└^Smith120bh/_TALK^┐ 04:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please refer to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phi Delta Alpha in which a Dartmouth fraternity which had a seperate article was merged. --† Ðy§ep§ion † 08:14, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Phi Tau fraternity is a local, not a member of a national. Informative page about legitimate brick-and-mortar item that has existed for a century. If we have wikipages for every random band that didn't even last a decade, why delete these pages? Womble 04:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, per nom, to Dartmouth College Greek organizations. This is what was done for other frats with no national affiliation. See, for example, House System at the California Institute of Technology. As in that case, none of these individual frats are notable. The collection is. -- Karnesky 05:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete, doesn't seem so important. What's with all the fraternity articles? Where's Omega Omega Omega? JIP | Talk 09:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the cited AfD's were all local chapters of national fraternities, and so could be merged with the national. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phi Delta Alpha was an article small enough to be merged with the list of fraternities, but these articles are more complete and well written. As far as notability goes, where do you draw the line? I know from experience that each of these houses are known by at least hundreds of students at the school, and thousands of alumni. Phi Tau (I should disclose that I am an alum of Phi Tau) has been written about in the New York Times, as Milque and Cookies is a unique tradition among fraternities, hosts dozens to maybe a hundred thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail each year and has been written about in hiking magazines because of it, and has several notable alumni (I will research and provide citations in the morning). — λ 09:59, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep For one thing, it's bad form to nominate three separate (and arguably unrelated) articles for deletion in one vote. As others have noted, the Phi Tau article, for example, is not about a local chapter of a national fraternity, but an independent organization that has its own unique history. In fact, the history section is a very notable component of this article, as it documents the fraternity's decision to break away from the national fraternity organization over the issue of segregation. I don't think that could be adequately rolled into a sentence or two in a larger article. The fact that these articles get a paragraph or two summary mention in another article is no more a reason for their deletion than, say, deleting Religion in Brazil would be justified because religion is mentioned in a paragraph or two of the main article about Brazil.--Kharker 15:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Merge With Greek System at Dartmouth.Letoofdune 04:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Both Phi Tau and Kappa Kappa Kappa have interesting and interesting histories, and are both local Frats, unlike the cited AfDs. Phi Tau is also one of only 3 co-eds in the Big list o' Frats. Jdubrule 06:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all fraternities. Merge if you must. Stifle 11:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep if verifiable Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Phi Tau article contains numerous verifiable citations.--Kharker 22:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with several of the above comments regarding the fact that this is a unique and local fraternity, as opposed to a national fraternity with dozens or hundreds of chapters. In addition, one should consider the history and interesting name as facts that add to its value. 23:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Keep I agree with many of the statements above concerning the uniqueness of local chapter history and individuality. It is important to keep in mind that unlike chapters of national fraternities, local houses are all individually autonomous organizations with networks of alumni that have been accumulating for decades. Each house is individually responsable for uniqiue social, campus, and community service initiatives. To merge these articles (not to mention delete them), would be a misrepresentation of the Dartmouth greek system and the greek system as a whole. 18:30, 8 February 2006
Keep Most of the above make a good point, but I see no reason not to allow a unique, individual house its own page. Though the metaphor is not entirely correct, it would be like deleting an individual church and just lumping it into the "Church" category. If it is, indeed, a truly unique environment, let it stay.
Keep- Alpha Chi deserves it's own page. it's a local fraternity and it's sweet. keep it please.
Keep - I agree with Smith120bh-- there is NO national chapter of Alpha Chi Alpha. It is a very unique house with it's own history; much of the information unique to this organization would have no place under the general Dartmouth Greek organizations entry. Alpha Chi Alpha has been written up in the New York Times magazine for its history and tradition. --Zach Mayer
Strong Keep --S iva1979^{Talk to me}15:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.