Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ali Faik Zaghloul

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. As there appears to be ongoing work to source this article and it has already been relisted I am unwilling to keep it lingering on AfD ad infinitum. Since the !votes coming in after sourcing began indicate that this may just meet inclusion criteria I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and a little time to improve, but I will specifically note that the burden of evidence remains heavily on the shoulders of those who wish to retain this article and that a rapid renomination of this article may be warranted if substantial improvement is not made in the upcoming days. Shereth 22:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Faik Zaghloul[edit]

Ali Faik Zaghloul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Contested prod. A good faith search for references found nothing but Wikipedia for (Zaghloul "Egyptian Radio Magazine"), fails WP:N and WP:V. I came across the article while working Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles and as best as I can tell there is no evidence that anything in the article is true or accurate. I am not sure but I believe that even the Arabic version of the article [1] is unreferenced and tagged appropriately Jeepday (talk) 02:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep for now. Let's not jump the gun. Seek advice from Arabic-speaking Wikipedians, as topics such as this may not have easily located English-language sources. Give it a few days, and please use discussion before resorting to tactics such as this; the article certainly doesn't seem like any type of hoax and we don't discriminate in our subject matter against Arabic topics. Badagnani (talk) 02:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, WP:NN, WP:RS, WP:V.  Esradekan Gibb  "Talk" 03:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, agree w/ rationale provided above by Jeepday (talk · contribs). Cirt (talk) 03:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete because it is not cited, and thus unable to verify the claims being made (WP:V). Happyme22 (talk) 05:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep per number of ghits although I'm not sure how many of them may be wiki mirrors and such and I've only searched in english. The fact that the article has existed for 2 years without substantial improvement is worrying but, that in and of itself is not deletion criteria. Jasynnash2 (talk) 10:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: the Arabic language does not use the roman script, so this is not surprising. Whether for better or worse, Arabic-language radio announcers of yesteryear do not have excellent coverage on websites using latin-based scripts. Let's defer to our Egypt-based editors on this and seek their input--we do have a lot of them. Badagnani (talk) 02:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. --InDeBiz1 Review me! / Talk to me! 22:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Ghits for "علي فايق زغلول" -wikipedia = 136 results. I may be mistaken but most appear to be forums or blogs. Jeepday (talk) 12:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as non-notable (and) without sources. –thedemonhog talk • edits 21:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 08:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 08:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I'm relisting this and adding it to the more general Middle East deletion sorting list in the hopes that we get some more feedback from knowledgeable folks (at this point anyone who reads Arabic could provide some insight). I was on the verge of closing this as delete because we simply don't have sources right now so the article fails WP:V, but we're operating in the dark and it won't hurt to give this another 5-7 days to see if someone can shed some light on this gentleman.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 08:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I was contacted as someone who knew Arabic to look for legit sources on this guy. I did an arabic search on him and got over 15,000 hits. Many of them were forums, yes, but many more were legitimate news sites. I think this article needs work from an Arabic speaker, not deletion. Wrad (talk) 11:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there a policy that goes with that? I looked all through WP:V and The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation... Any material lacking a reliable source may be removed. I was not aware that we had separate verification requirements based on the nationality of or primary language of the subject of an article. But if you think there is a policy that say's unverified information can stay if there is some possibility it may eventually be found, please point me to it and I will immediately withdraw the request for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 18:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've just verified you that it's notable enough to be an article. If it doesn't have refs on it, put a sources needed tag up. The answer then is to add sources not to delete. This article has the right to exist as verified by an arabic web search.
Why are you looking at WP:V for a deletion discussion? You should be looking at the deletion policy page, which says articles should be deleted if they "cannot possibly be attributed to reliable sources" or if "all attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed". This article no longer meets either of these criteria and should be kept. Language doesn't matter. Wrad (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please keep in mind that I attempted to reference the article prior to posting it at AFD. While WP:V does not lead to deletion of an article directly, it does speak to the removal of all material that is challenged, I am challenging all of the content of the article. If all the content is removed, per WP:V then it qualifies for {{db-empty}}, so in essence all unreferenced articles are subject to deletion, by the two step process. I am not trying to appear disagreeable, but there are No Articles on Wikipedia that have been tagged as being unreferenced longer then this article. The oldest Category in Category:Articles lacking sources is Category:Articles lacking sources from July 2006 in which this article currently resides. Per WP:V "If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." and as of yet no reliable verifiable reference supporting any part of the article have been provided. The reference you added in these two edits Diff shows Bad Request (Invalid Hostname) additionally there does not appear to be any relationship between "Popular Street Songs Belong to the Name of Rushdie (Arabic)" and the article content for "Ali Faik Zaghloul". other then they are both Arabic. The goal of Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles is The goal of this project is to ensure that articles meet at least the barest minimum of verifiability, by including at least one reliable published (online or offline) reference. Jeepday (talk) 11:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That is freaking annoying! That stupid link worked last night and now it's dead! Can you just chill a little bit and not be so confrontational. You seem very doubtful of anything I put up that is Arabic. I'm doing this out of the goodness of my heart here. I don't care one bit about this guy or this article. Wrad (talk) 11:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I just added a bunch more refs, but I can't translate them now as I will be late for work. You're just going to have to wait until this afternoon. And if you look carefully at the article, Rushdie (Roushdy) has a lot to do with the article. Zaghloul made him famous and that's what the article that went dead talked specifically about, so don't be so quick to condemn it. Wrad (talk) 11:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, I know I hate it when links do that, the whole site was down when I checked. The relationship between Rushdie and Roushdy is not obvious unless you are familiar with the names (which I am not). I have nothing against you or foreign language references. I just have a thing about unreferenced encyclopedia articles. If there had been references on علي فايق زغلول I would have used them. Jeepday (talk) 12:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I was a bit rough there. I was pretty upset about that link. Wrad (talk) 20:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No offense taken or given, we are all after the same thing, WP:AGF. Jeepday (talk) 12:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Thanks very much to Wrad, who I contacted, for looking into this and finding some sources that seem to verify this guy's existence. That's probably sufficient to make this article keepable for the time being, at least in my view.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 08:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep, Thanks to the work of Wrad, I would say that this article now meets the most basic requirements of WP:V though there is still much room for improvement, I would say as long as the Arabic language version of the article remains unchallenged for notability, the English version in it present version meets the requirements of a stub. I viewed the translated version of the first reference and it does verify by minor mention the subject as a personality, the second reference link is still down, which contains the support for notability. Wrad had mentioned above that he found several references that supported the basic claims of the article and I see no reason to challenge that assessment. Jeepday (talk) 12:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for bringing this up for deletion so we could finally get that tag off the article! Wrad (talk) 13:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for doing the leg work :) I like it when they get saved for good cause. But that's not why I brought it to AFD, I really thought the article was a fabrication or an overly inflated bio of a non-notable. Jeepday (talk) 22:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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