Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfredo Gonzalez (baseball player)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep with the nominator switching sides to preserve the article and no calls for deletion. Non-admin closure. Pastor Theo (talk) 01:12, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alfredo Gonzalez (baseball player)

Procedural nom (unbundling from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jose Diaz (baseball player)). Good faith gsearch isn't finding indepedent, reliable sources showing notability. So the question comes down to whether he meets WP:ATHLETE by having competed at a fully professional level. 6 years in the minors, including some time at AAA. Personally, I'm ambivalent about whether this is enough. Fabrictramp | talk to me 15:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 15:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 15:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep~~Delete~~ Changing to keep, playing in the CBPL qualifies him under the proposed baseball notability guidelines that I based my stance on.(from my comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Juan Richardson)There is broad interpretation among Wikipedia editors of what constitutes "fully professional" for baseball players, I interpret as having played in one of the major leagues outlined in the proposed (but not fully adopted) baseball notability guidelines, and that minor league players are not notable unless there has been significant coverage of them in reliable, independent sources (not just statistic pages), in which case they would pass the general notability guidelines and would not have to pass WP:ATHLETE.--kelapstick (talk) 15:27, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Minor League baseball players are under contract with a 'Professional' team, having to be stored in lower class teams, but still 'professional' players with stats. These type of minor league stub can further knowledge of the player by fans in the seats (with Blackberries etc, thus more webhits) or team scouts. WP:ATHLETE and 'people of notability' doesn't take into account that a 'player' and a 'person' of notability are two different things. A 'person' is vague to define. A 'player' of notability, say a minor league baseball player, does have stats and awards to his name sometimes, and these stubs can add perfectly to what Wikipedia was meant to be in the first place! I have reliable references and always note the stubs accordingly.Gjr rodriguez (talk) 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not only are some statistic sites just stats on a webpage, they also carry 'history', 'contact information','stadium information', what can be considered "signifigant coverage" with more research available on player beyond just the stats. The websites I reference are more than just a stat site. The stat sites are referenced for the stat tables, the bio info is from different sources melded and noted accordinglyGjr rodriguez (talk) 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~Weak keep - ~~Statistics or brief mentions in articles about minor league teams do not constitute "significant coverage in reliable sources," as required by WP:N.~~ BRMo (talk) 04:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC) First, a caveat. The article's text continues to be a short paragraph, and although it currently cites three reliable sources, two of them are statistics sites and the other is to an article on his team with a one-sentence mention of Gonzalez. I have some concerns about treating his CPBL play as the determining criterion. I believe that all Wikipedia articles should at least meet the general Wikipedia standard of "significant coverage in reliable sources." Whenever we adopt supplementary criteria such as "all MLB players are notable," it is because we know enough about the coverage that MLB baseball players receive that we can safely assume that reliable sources can be found. It was interesting to see that assumption tested in cases like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Josh Bunce and to demonstrate that we were able to find the sources, even for very obscure players. However, in this case it feels like it may be an attempt to use the CPBL criterion to bypass the general notability criterion, and I'd definitely have a problem with that. However, I decided to spend some more time looking through the Google News archives. Although I never did find an article focusing on Gonzalez, I did run across some interesting facts (for example, he was called up to the LA Dodgers in 2003 and was on their roster for 6 days, though he never appeared in a game). I guess I'm now convinced that there's enough information scattered around in various sources to write at least a well sourced two or three paragraph article, which is enough for me to change my vote to a weak keep. I'll contribute by adding a couple of sentences to the article along with citations. BRMo (talk) 02:39, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep He played 5 games at AAA (spread over 3 seasons). I consider that sufficient as a compromise. BTW, has anyone actually tried to search for more extensive sources? DGG (talk) 19:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I spent quite a bit of time searching google and google news before nominating.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Whether or not you think he qualifies under WP:ATHLETE under his minor league career, this guy has also played for the Sinon Bulls in the Chinese Professional Baseball League (which according to the notability standards that keep being stated he qualifies) the highest level of baseball in Taiwan. I am just gathering reliable sources now to add the CPBL Sinon Bulls to his article. Borgarde (talk) 12:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's his profile link: http://www.cpbl.com.tw/personal_Rec/pbat_personal.aspx?Pno=B0D2 . And heres straight from the "guidelines" people are stating their deletion rationales on "Have appeared in at least one game in any one of the following active major leagues: Major League Baseball, Nippon Professional Baseball, Korea Baseball Organization, Chinese Professional Baseball League or any other top-level national league.". Borgarde (talk) 12:26, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for adding the CPBL playing info to the article -- that's enough to tip me over to the keep side. (I'd withdraw the nom, but since there's been delete !votes it wouldn't mean much.)--Fabrictramp | talk to me 16:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.