Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfred Kaminski

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 03:44, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alfred Kaminski

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Article about semi-pro and amateur football manager whose highest "achievement" was a single-match spell as interim manager of 3. Liga's Stuttgarter Kickers in November 2015. The article fails WP:GNG regardless of there being a lot of routine coverage online (interviews, match reports/previews, transactional coverage, club press releases and conferences) because no reliable, independent sources cover the subject directly and in-depth. The generally unreliable tabloid Bild reported on his 2023 dismissal from semi-pros Kickers Offenbach for allegedly employing highly unusual motivational methods, and many national and local newspapers carried the Bild report (e.g., [1]). I don't believe otherwise reliable sources carrying a tabloid report gets around WP:RS concerns, and the coverage is not sustained (would run afoul of WP:BLP1E). Aside from that incident, the coverage is routine (some examples include [2], [3], [4]. PROD was declined months ago without any effort to address WP:SPORTCRIT. Hopefully, the large amount of routine coverage doesn't lead to a WP:REFBOMB.) Jogurney (talk) 17:42, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Germany. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It seems as if he passes GNG very easily from just the German language page - the article needs expansion, but GNG seems easily met? SportingFlyer T·C 19:35, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how that's possible. The de:wiki article includes two club website articles (not independent), a Stuttgarter Zeitung piece (the best coverage I could find) which consists of half of a paragraph on his career (20 Jahre lang arbeitete er bei der Zollfahndung in Hamburg. Der gebürtige Möllner befasste sich als Ermittlungsbeamter mit organisierter Kriminalität. 2003 machte er sein Hobby Fußball zum Beruf. 2005 erwarb er die DFB-Fußball-Lehrer-Lizenz. 2006 holte ihn Michael Henke als Co-Trainer zum 1. FC Saarbrücken, später übernahm er selbst den Cheftrainerposten. 2008 ging’s als sportlicher Leiter zur SV Elversberg, 2010 zum FC Homburg – als sportlicher Leiter und Trainer. Erfahrungen als Chefanalytiker und Scout sammelte er 2012/13 unter Trainer Ralph Hasenhüttl beim VfR Aalen. Seine letzte Station vor den Blauen waren die Offenbacher Kickers. Nun kommt ihm bei den Kickers in Stuttgart in einer der schwierigsten Phasen der Vereinsgeschichte eine Schlüsselfunktion zu.), 2 Osthessen News pieces (one that is routine transactional coverage of his hiring by Barockstadt - mostly in the form of reprinting the club's press release and quotes from the subject; and one that is routine transactional coverage of his sacking by Barockstadt mostly consisting of quotes from the club's press release and the subject's public statement to the media), and a Kicker article that has just 2 sentences about Kaminski in what is also routine transasctional coverage. I'll accept that the Stuttgarter Zeitung piece is more than routine coverage, but that doesn't get us to a GNG pass. Can you elaborate on what you're seeing that I cannot? Jogurney (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Stuttgarter Zeitung article and Ost Hessen articles clearly pass GNG to me - there was a press conference and the paper went there to cover it. His firing was a reprint of a press release, but was covered significantly. The Bild re-coverage seems fine as well. All of the routine coverage articles are at least three paragraphs long and are directly on the subject. He's not the most notable manager in history, but there's enough coverage there for an article. SportingFlyer T·C 20:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the explanation. I can't agree that primary coverage like reprinted club press releases and quotes from the subject help in any way to pass GNG, but I'll follow up on your note that Kaminiski's not the most notable manager in history. The Osthessen News articles are about his (very brief) tenure with a Hessenliga club (which competes in a state competition at the amateur 5th tier of German club football); according to transfermarkt most of these matches had attendance ranging from 300-500. The only professional management role Kaminski had was as an interim management for one match in the 3. Liga (for which I can only find a match report; nothing about his role even in the Stuttgart newspapers). So if we use WP:COMMONSENSE, we ought to reject an article about someone with such a minor role in German club football (if for some reason people actually think the GNG is met). Jogurney (talk) 20:35, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per SF. Giant Snowman 19:47, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per above. I also found [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], among many many many more German sources from tons of newspapers. Clearly significant figure in German Lowe league football with ongoing career. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 16:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per sources above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:54, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 02:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.