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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus on the main article, redirect for the rest, with the option of merging independently sourced content. This discussion is a mess, and has gone on long enough. There is clear consensus that the spinoff articles aren't worth keeping. Consensus isn't clear on the main article; a standalone might be justifiable, or a merger to the article about the founder, but that decision should be taken on the basis of quantities of coverage in reliable sources, and rather than examining that this AfD has devolved into off-topic argument. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Ameen Educational Society

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Al-Ameen Educational Society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Articles about a non-notable university and its several articles (listed below) that I had nominated through PROD deletion back in October which resulted in deletion. It seems that they were recreated, but nothing has changed in regards to the quality or information about them. Any sources currently used don't mention the school in detail and are only in passing. None of these articles meet GNG. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:52, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Appearing notable can be given to any article nominated at an Afd discussion. But appearance is not a requirment. It's whether or not it actually is with sources that qualify in some form of significant coverage. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:52, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all The articles about the colleges clearly aren't notable. The article about the institution might be, but from what I can the references are all either primary or extremely bias, trivial, PR puff pieces. Especially the ones from The Hindu. Which clearly aren't up to Wikipedia's standards. So the article isn't worth keeping unless someone can find references that are. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:21, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:48, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge: Merge all pages associated with the subject to the primary subject, which I believe is likely Al-Ameen Educational Society. I did see a few reliable sources on the primary subject, not each individual department of it. Add sections in the primary page about the various colleges, if relevant and reliable sources are available. Multi7001 (talk) 02:38, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I am the author of these articles, I leave it to all users for consideration. If not possible to keep it as separate, it can be merged. DreamSparrow Chat 17:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd be fine with merging the articles as long as the target article does not become a dump for un-referenced material or material that is only sourced to primary references. If someone can pick out the few good lines and references from each article and just merge them though without the other stuff I'm fine with it being used as an alternative to deletion. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There still needs to be sufficient established notability for the primary page. There have been countless deletion noms from high-scale American institutions like Princeton that attempted having separate pages for colleges, but there must be reason for a primary page first, then all other extensions merge, if relevant. There might be insufficient reliable sources in this case. Multi7001 (talk) 03:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree. Which is why I said we should only merge the articles if there are good sources to do it with. Obviously I'm not for merging the articles if what we merge won't at all improve the target. I'd be really surprised if we couldn't find 2 or 3 useable references out of the 8 articles though, but it's possible they just aren't that notable. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am eager to see if the primary page, Al-Ameen Educational Society, avoids deletion. The focus should be on that page, and after the AfD nom concludes, the extensions/colleges should be merged, if relevant. Thus far, only seen strong sources and coverage for the institution's founder. Multi7001 (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The main page doesn't have enough to survive with sourcing, etc. The article on the school's founder has better sourcing and the sources used on the school's article's are more about him than anything else. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It might after the other articles are merged or redirected. There's really no way to tell until then though. I guess that's kind an inherent issue with "mass" nominations like this one. Not to say the articles shouldn't have been nominated this way, but doing so does make it a little harder to suss out the best option for all the articles involved in it. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I nominated as a mass because I had gotten them deleted after PRODDING them just last year as I stated in my nomination. For some reason, they were restored and all had failed per my original PROD nomination. So much so, the navbox that no longer exists for these articles was deleted because it was all red links. I think that if a prod deleted an article then it had merits to be. And if it were recreated, it was probably due to a deletion review discussion, but I didn't find one and the articles haven't changed in any form whatsoever post-recreation. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:08, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately (or maybe not) it's pretty easy to re-create articles that have been deleted through the PROD process without any discussion or anything. At least you were able to get them deleted that way in the first place. Normally it's pretty hard for PRODs of schools to not be removed on sight. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, it doesn't. Stop saying it does when you haven't read those links that are used as sources. All of those "sources" don't help the article pass notability. Not a single one of them talks about the school in-depth nor prove any notability. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the case is with the references or lack of them it's perfectly fine to have a merge discussion in an AfD. In fact, it's probably better to have it here where people will actually see and participate in the discussion, instead of on some random talk pages that no one will look at. Let alone participate in. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Adamant1, this Afd may interest you since this is the same keep voter who's only here to go after me over one thing and claim that since I've nominated the article I'm causing a problem. And is making false accusations against me. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be careful with pinging specific people so it doesn't look like WP:CANVASS. If certain people are repeatedly making accusations toward you or causing problems in multiple AfDs that you've nominated the best thing to do is to report them to ANI. Reading over that AfD, it looks like both Venkat TL and Valjean are both bludgeoning, making personal statements, and have WP:COMPETENCE issues. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not trying to canvass, just to alert the behavior and as to why this editor has voted keep. It's a major concern here as over there and on other discussion venues. Because as I've said and as you have said, their behavior is something I've noticed on Afd's where they vote keep since the article exists and find one or two links and thus they think it's notable. Even after repeated instance of trying to ask them how does it pass GNG, they don't respond to that issue. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:50, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I know your not. It's still better to air on the side of caution though. I'm not going to vote in the other AfD, but I did leave a comment about the neutrality of references. Hopefully that helps. People often confuse what works in an article with what works for notability in an AfD, when they aren't really the same. For instance it's usually fine to cite a social media link in an article if it's supported by a better references, but no one can claim a social media shows the topic is notable. A lot of people don't know that though. So I'd give Venkat TL the benefit of the doubt that they just don't know the difference, rather then reading malicious intent into their actions. Not that I'm saying you are, just giving my perspective on your disagreement. If you do enough of these you'll learn eventually that it's mostly pointless trying to discuss things with people. 99% of the time people aren't going to change their vote or admit their wrong just because you lay out a well reasoned argument for why they should and are. It's not confined to just keep voters either. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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