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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus seems to lean more towards delete now. It is important to recognise that NSEASONS does not guarantee notability of any season, and the fact the other stuff exists is also not a reasonable argument. There is the possibility that this season might be notable by the end of it, but it has only just started ad so it is impossible to tell right now, and no indication that any presumption of notability should be employed. I'm happy t restore later in the season if GNG can be shown. Fenix down (talk) 15:33, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2019–20 FC Universitatea Cluj season[edit]

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2019–20 FC Universitatea Cluj season (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:NSEASONS as this team does not play in the top professional league and fails WP:NOTSTATS Dom from Paris (talk) 16:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris (talk) 16:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris (talk) 16:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Just because a club is not playing in the top-division of a country, doesn't make the article useless. In fact, they are playing in the 2nd tier of Romanian football. Instead of deleting it, we should improve it similarly to other season articles about football clubs. We have some season articles about teams in non-league English football. Why should we delete this article about a random club in Romania, if we are not going to delete those? KingSkyLord (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Being useful is not a criteria on wikipedia. A telephone directory is useful, a user manual for a telephone is useful, a pair of scissors is useful but they do not belong in an encyclopedia. All the information on that page was copied from one source which is where someone looking for that useful information would go to first. Could you tell us which policy/guideline/essay you are using to back up your keep !vote? Dom from Paris (talk) 19:44, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And BTW I totally agree with you and would urge you to nominate the articles you mention. I nominated this one because it was on the new pages feed. Dom from Paris (talk) 19:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This is not a random Romanian football club, they are a notable one and among the most popular in the country. I think they deserve a season article even if they are not playing in the top league at the moment. And the article doesn't have more sources because the seasons has not even started yet, all the gameboxes will have a report, and so will the other sections in the article (attendances, appearances, transfers etc.) once there is data to populate them with. mihai.zamfir30 07:08, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please remember this is not just a vote based on preference but on policy and guidelines. Can you please state what your !vote is based on. --Dom from Paris (talk) 08:31, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Instead of wanting to delete an article on a second tier football team, we should be looking to create articles on more football teams around the world to keep the public informed about these smaller teams which could later become big teams up there with the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Manchester City etc. Universitatea Cluj actually only just missed out last season on being promoted to the top tier. This season they may succeed. Anything is possible with football so the argument that this article is useless wouldn't be accepted if Universitatea Cluj rises to become a title-winning champion. It has been a champion in the past and can be again. Furthermore, I think it would be highly disrespectful to disconsider a club with such rich history just because it's from Romania and not a well-known country like England or the United States. Why is it that there are season pages on non-league English clubs? They won't get much attention in the press and so would fail with a greater likelihood. ajudge149 08:52, 30 July 2019 (UTC)— Note to closing admin: Ajudge149 (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]
I absolutely agree with that there is no reason to take into account the country from which this club comes from. You seem to be suggesting that my nomination is biased, I hope this isn't the case because it most certainly isn't and you should always assume good faith. The comment below may seem biased but I think the editor is stating a fact that 2nd tier clubs from Romania will get far less attention in the press and so fail WP:GNG. Dom from Paris (talk) 08:38, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No I stating the truth, unless you can get some references so that it will be able to pass WP:GNG, I will be sticking with my vote. Also it would fail WP:FPL as Liga II is not a professional league. HawkAussie (talk) 01:10, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article is mainly useless as the second tier of Romanian football doesn't really get much media attention compared to say the first division of this country. May I also bring up this page too for the discussion as they were still in division two last season. HawkAussie (talk) 06:31, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • 2018–19 FC Universitatea Cluj season
      • @HawkAussie, there is currently a season article for every 2017-18 Liga II club. Should we delete all of those as well? I personally don't think so. KingSkyLord (talk) 23:11, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @KingSkyLord: If those articles pass WP:GNG then yes they can say, but if not then yeah I suggest deleting them as Liga II isn't a professional league under the WP:FPL guidelines. HawkAussie (talk) 23:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Liga II is a fully professional league. The list from WP:FPL is incomplete, Liga II wasn't featured there because nobody had added it, but I added it now.mihai.zamfir30 14:55, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • From what I can gather from the google translation of this document not all players have to be professional but those that are need to have a proper contract. I have reverted the addition and asked for it to be discussed first on the talk page as this subject has already been brought up. --Dom from Paris (talk) 17:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 09:09, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ludost Mlačani: Well if you are going to go ahead and add those suitable references for the page then this can possibly pass WP:GNG. Also if the team is "notable" then why has it not won a Romanian title because I when I think of biggest clubs, I also think of titles that they have won. But with only one cup title in their trophy cabinet, then that isn't a "big club". HawkAussie (talk) 01:10, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Universitatea Cluj have been in the top flight in the past and have won league titles even if they were not champions of Romania. Therefore they have more than just a cup title in their trophy cabinet. Maybe we should delete all clubs currently not playing in the top flight or that haven't won titles? There are many 'notable' clubs with season pages that haven't won any titles and have never played in the top flight. Delete those too if you want to delete this article. ajudge149 13:13, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify The topic is notable and we should be able to have an article on it as this team will receive independent secondary press coverage throughout the course of the 2019–20 season, but the page as it stands now violates WP:NOTSTATS/WP:GNG. It needs to be improved before it can be in mainspace. SportingFlyer T·C 23:48, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge or Draftify As the season doesn't have much content currently, it could be made into draft form or merged with FC Universitatea Cluj. Ivor Browning (talk) 11:15, 7 August 2019 (UTC) Sockstrike – Levivich 22:52, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: the keep votes don't really stack up to much in terms of presenting reliable sourcing for GNG, but there doesn't yet seem to be an alternative path,
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 12:58, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete As far as I can see the article fails WP:NSEASONS and WP:GNG. The second div in the Romanian league isn't in the WP:FPL list as fully pro. Govvy (talk) 19:32, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I just want to point out yet again that WP:NSEASONS is not exclusionary and any season which gets covered in independent secondary media should be eligible for an article, if properly referenced, which this one isn't. SportingFlyer T·C 21:38, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – If we have no reliable independent secondary sources upon which to base an article, we shouldn't have that article. We shouldn't have a separate page about a season just to display stats for that season, per NOTSTATS. This is what our guidelines GNG and NSEASONS say, and applied here, they suggest this page should be deleted. – Levivich 22:53, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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