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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Hugsyrup 16:49, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1910 New Orleans Pelicans season[edit]

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1910 New Orleans Pelicans season (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Minor league baseball season articles fail notability guidelines and have been declared not notable. Here[1], here[2], here[3], and here[4] are four examples. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:58, 10 February 2020 (UTC) Also nominating-[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:58, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Louisiana-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:58, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I see no reason to have wiki pages for those minor league seasons. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:03, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Enough work has been done that per WP:HEY I'm striking my delete vote. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 02:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There were no major league teams in the South at this time. The greatest accomplishment for a Southern team was a Southern pennant, which these teams had. The 1908 Nashville Vols finished the prior season in last place, and won on the last day of the season by a fraction of a percentage point in what Grantland Rice said was the South's finest baseball game (notable enough to have several books written about this season). The 1909 Atlanta team had Southern football legend John Heisman as its owner, and the 1910 New Orleans team featured shoeless Joe Jackson, on top of featuring Breitenstein who lost the game in 1908 to Nashville. Cake (talk) 02:07, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I disagree with the deletion nomination's rationale as this could be notable due to its historic nature and the examples were at least 70 years into the future, but the article fails WP:GNG pretty clearly. No prejudice on recreation. SportingFlyer T·C 02:11, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I appreciate at least the awareness of the historical aspect. Consider that the Crackers were "Atlanta's home team until the Atlanta Braves moved from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in 1966." This is not at all like covering a season of the Florida Fire Frogs. Cake (talk) 08:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep When I reviewed the article initially it had one source. This could be notable if properly sourced. You've updated it since you posted, and so this should be relisted considering it's a completely different article now, even though it needs further work. The team got daily coverage in 1910 in newspapers throughout the South in a way different to traditional minor leagues. SportingFlyer T·C 10:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep all 1908 Nashville Vols season, per coverage at [5] and a book about the season itself (see [6]. No opinion yet on the other two. Hog Farm (talk) 03:11, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Other two seasons - redirect 1909 Atlanta Crackers season to Atlanta Crackers Redirect 1910 New Orleans Pelicans season to New Orleans Pelicans (baseball), both per WP:NSEASONS. Not enough coverage for the latter two, and the Pelicans can't inherit notability from Shoeless Joe. Hog Farm (talk) 03:14, 10 February 2020 (UTC) (Changing !vote to keep all, instead of just one. Hog Farm (talk) 02:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]
  • Merge & redirect There isn't enough information or sources in this article to currently meet WP:GNG, but could possibly in the future. JRATalk 03:56, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep - This is now sufficiently sourced and has enough information to establish notability JRATalk 02:01, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - All these teams received adequate coverage to show notability. Using deletions of modern day, not particularly significant minor league team seasons as a "precedent" for minor league teams in the 1910s is inappropriate. These minor league teams from the 1910s were not affiliated development leagues like the minor leagues today but teams that had regional importance at a time when the major leagues only had 16 teams and there was no television or even radio to carry major league teams nationally. Rlendog (talk) 15:08, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per MisterCake. We aren't opening the door to every minor league season but Southern champions in the era prior to MLB moving South are a significant part of Southern and baseball history. Cbl62 (talk) 20:19, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. My search on Newspapers.com turned up plenty of results about the Pelicans's 1910 season. Some of the articles are routine coverage (brief announcements of game results, upcoming matchups, etc.), but there's significant coverage as well.[1][2][3][4][5] While I would prefer to see more coverage outside of local Louisiana periodicals, I think there are enough sources to write a decently sized article that consists "mainly of well-sourced prose", as required by WP:NSEASONS. I didn't research the seasons of the Crackers or Vols, but I suspect similar coverage exists for them as well. The articles on those seasons should be procedurally kept and analyzed in separate AfDs, if need be. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 00:20, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Pelicans Play Cubs a Twelve Inning Tie". The Times-Democrat. New Orleans, Louisiana. March 20, 1910. p. 22 – via Newspapers.com.
  2. ^ "Fluke Finish Gives Opening Game to Mobile". The Times-Democrat. New Orleans, Louisiana. April 14, 1910. p. 13 – via Newspapers.com.
  3. ^ "Frank's Birds Here Today". The Atlanta Constitution. July 4, 1910. p. 8 – via Newspapers.com.
  4. ^ "Case Driven from Box: Two Nashville Pitchers Are Beaten 6 to 1". The Times-Democrat. New Orleans, Louisiana. August 29, 1910. p. 11 – via Newspapers.com.
  5. ^ "Big League Stars of Long Ago in the Southern League Championship Group". The Montgomery Times. Montgomery, Alabama. September 21, 1910. p. 8 – via Newspapers.com.
  • Weak delete on pelicans/crackers per nom. While the sourcing is decent of course papers are gonna give game logs at the time an the like, that doesn't show off notability, it'd have to be significant and lasting. It has nothing to do with the age of the seasons, if it was an article on a comparable 2019 team I'd actually be stronger against it. The 1908 Vols I'll concede since those sources are particularly strong. Wizardman 21:56, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per all above. Baseball in the South and West in the pre-MLB expansion era is a completely different animal to what we would consider to be "minor league" seasons today. These teams got significant, GNG-qualifying coverage in the historical print media of their era, especially so since these particular teams were championship-winning teams. Ejgreen77 (talk) 15:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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