Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Оccupation of Baltic republics by Nazi Germany

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete so article is kept JodyB_talk 17:09, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Оccupation of Baltic republics by Nazi Germany

I have created this article to separate the Nazi occupation from the Soviet one, both of which presently covered in Occupation of Baltic states, as the topics have little in common and can confuse a reader. Since some people want to speedy delete this article, I hereby place it in AFD in hope it will be kept.--Dojarca 10:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep as stated above. This topic has nothing in common with "soviet occupation" and no need to represent them both in one article.--Dojarca 10:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Community consensus is against splitting the page, see Talk:Occupation of Baltic states#Nazi occupation. While the article might be needed in the future (and then named Occupation of the Baltic states by Germany, 1941-1944 (or Nazi Germany)), at the moment that is unneeded fork. I nominated the article for speedy deletion, but Dojarca kept removing the tag (for an article he created himself), instead of placing {{hangon}} tag like the rules require. DLX 10:17, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is already enough content for a separate article.--Dojarca 14:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as unreferenced: surely this can be covered elsewhere without what looks like a POV fork? Moreschi ^Talk 10:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The article now is a copy of section from Occupation of Baltic states, I did not change it. If it to be deleted from here, it should also be deleted from that article.--Dojarca 10:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see: there it's referenced, here it isn't. So why do we have this fork at all? Moreschi ^Talk 10:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
References added. The reason is that the topics have nothing in common and confuse a reader. Such different topics worth separate articles.--Dojarca 10:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per DLX. this is an unwanted fork.--Alexia Death 10:38, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A redirect would be appropriate...--Alexia Death 12:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Did anyone notice that the "O" in Occupation is actually a zero? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps)))} 18:54, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not even that - it's unicode code point 041E "CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER O". Odd. Zetawoof_(ζ) 00:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per DLX. Pavel Vozenilek 21:57, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Coment I would like to point out that there already exit articles about this period for two out of three Baltic states separately.--Alexia Death 04:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then why it is needed to keep this information in Occupation of Baltic States? There are also already exist articles on Soviet history of the Baltics, so this article seems also unnecessary.--Dojarca 23:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Occupation of Baltic states; if the current section in the future will be over expanded this additional info could go under this name. BTW >> Occupation of Baltic republics by Nazi Germany. M.K. 14:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong and speedy keep - Subject is verifiable and is certainly notable. In fact, we have tens or possibly hundreds of articles on different aspects of the Nazi occupation of the Baltic republics. The subject is also clearly demarcated from related topics; it is defined by the time frame and the presence of German troops. (The last point is something that cannot be said about most other "occupation" related articles.) The motivation for this AfD seems to be an extreme form of nationalistic POV-pushing. Those attacking this article want to present the Nazi occupation and the associated Holocaust in the Baltics as an subchapter in the larger crime of "Soviet occupation". I am sorry to have to use the word again, but I see this POV bordering on Holocaust denial. (Yes, the Holocast happened, but it did not happen here and we did not take part in it. Besides, Stalin killed far more people...) I am not saying that this AfD, or support for it, was done in bad faith. It seems that they genuinely believe in their nationalist POV. It is however clear, that until Baltic editors fully accept Wikipedia's principle of neutral point of view, our coverage of Baltic history will not meet our standards. -- Petri Krohn 23:14, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop personal attacks and accusations. We've had quite enough of these from you already, we do not need or want more. DLX 04:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What, is the subject not notable? Who disputes the fact of the occupation? Certainly keep in hopes of speedy improvement. --Ghirla^-трёп- 10:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and turn Occupation of Baltic States into a disambiguation page where the occupation is specified by time and event. --Yury Petrachenko 12:01, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete but first Merge any information that does not appear in Occupation of Baltic Republics. The subject is no doubt notable. This is not part of a coverup or a "POV-pushing". There is no need for the information to be displayed in a dozen different places. There are already articles that deal with the occupation of Estonia and Latvia separately and both this article and Occupation of Baltic Republics link to them. The reason for this article to be deleted is because it is superfluous and unnecessary. Lorangriel 18:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. Totally different matter. Clear distinction. Most other encyclopedia differentiate Nazi occupation of Baltic states.Vlad fedorov 19:03, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most other encyclopedias use other measures of avoiding systematic unreliability -- measures that are not available to Wikipedia. For example, an encyclopedia built by a small team of respect-earned experts will not need something like the WP:POVFORK policy. Digwuren 08:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. As pointed out by Vecrumba, forking is rather problematic -- especially in light of Wikipedia policies such as WP:POVFORK. Digwuren 08:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a POV fork, it is simply splittiong of the article to avoid messing up Soviet and German occupation in one article.--Dojarca 08:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I find it strange that the article hasn't been expanded during this AfD, I am sure that most Delete votes would become Keep then - I know that I then definitely would like to keep the article when it has meaningful and properly sourced content. At the moment there is still no reason for this split (or POVfork). Also, not Baltic republics, Baltic states should be correct, as has been discussed previously - see Talk:Occupation of Baltic states#Requested move or just Baltic states. Sander Säde 10:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In fact the article expanded greatly during the AFD [1].--Dojarca 09:24, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.