User talk:Tgeorgescu/Archives/2021/December

Requesting some article expansion help

Greetings,

Requesting your visit to article Draft:Irrational beliefs and Draft:Superstitions in Christian societies and help in expanding them, if these topics interest you.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 07:30, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Uită-te pe pagina de evolution

fraiere — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.122.248.172 (talk) 11:50, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Invitation to take part in a survey about medical topics on Wikipedia

Dear fellow editor,

I am Piotr Konieczny, a sociologist of new media at Hanyang University (and User:Piotrus on Wikipedia). I would like to better understand Wikipedia's volunteers who edit medical topics, many associated with the WikiProject Medicine, and known to create some of the highest quality content on Wikipedia. I hope that the lessons I can learn from you that I will present to the academic audience will benefit both the WikiProject Medicine (improving your understanding of yourself and helping to promote it and attract new volunteers) and the wider world of medical volunteering and academia. Open access copy of the resulting research will be made available at WikiProject's Medicine upon the completion of the project.

All questions are optional. The survey is divided into 4 parts: 1 - Brief description of yourself; 2 - Questions about your volunteering; 3 - Questions about WikiProject Medicine and 4 - Questions about Wikipedia's coverage of medical topics.

Please note that by filling out this questionnaire, you consent to participate in this research. The survey is anonymous and all personal details relevant to your experience will be kept private and will not be transferred to any third party.

I appreciate your support of this research and thank you in advance for taking the time to participate and share your experiences! If you have any questions at all, please feel free to contact me at my Wikipedia user page or through my email listed on the survey page (or by Wikipedia email this user function).

The survey is accessible through the LINK HERE.

Piotr Konieczny
Associate Professor
Hanyang University
If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:24, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Please No Simplistic Nazi analogies

Please read False equivalence, Straw man, Godwin's law - https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/694/274/fc5.png. 18:56, 17 December 2021 (UTC)Jacob Zumba (talk)

See also Reductio ad Hitlerum#Limits to classification as a fallacy. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:28, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Ion Antonescu as an Albanian-Romanian, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians_of_Romania

I've watched the page about the albanians from Romania and i saw that Ion Antonescu was there, the only sources backing this claim are of fringe theories coming from unreliable journals or radios, actual historiography doesn't mention any albanian ancestor of him. I request if you can give a look at it. Sources do not show anything albanian: 1) https://books.google.it/books?vid=ISBN9780198221265&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y&hl=it#v=onepage&q&f=false 2) https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230502093_3 3) https://archive.org/details/romaniancassandr00watt/page/390/mode/2up 4) https://books.google.it/books?redir_esc=y&hl=it&id=8taGDAAAQBAJ&q=antonescu#v=snippet&q=middle-class%20family&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:B07:6469:985D:3177:EED6:6C88:C625 (talk) 23:29, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Bullies

Excuse me but I can't help but feel targeted by people, I do not intend to commit vandalism and I do check my sources. I try my hardest to contribute and for what, to get berated or harassed. This is not the Wikipedia I know, too much toxicity, can you please help me with finding more information on the Russian Population? SCPdude629 (talk) 17:07, 24 December 2021 (UTC)SCPdude629

RE: Amendment request

Hello. Your amendment request was declined by a vote of the committee. It has now been archived.

For the arbitration committee,
–MJL ‐Talk‐^🤶 15:11, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Solomons temple

If you feel like taking a look at this:[1] I assume you have some grasp of the current scholarly consensus. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:06, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: Some temple existed: probably small, probably Pagan, and probably not Solomon's. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:44, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Grow up!

O persoană care folosește tipuri de argumente oe care le refuza altora ar putea fi acuzata de imaturitate . Șiu ca autorul e probabil ateu sau anticrestin la fel cum stie el ca "probabil toți stiu ca" si la fel cum stiu ca tu ești anticreștin pt ca nu te deranjează o generalizare grosolană ,si o parere pur peraoanala fara legătură cu realitatea pe o pagină care ar trebui sa fie despre date si fapte atât timp cat susține ateismul dar te deranjează persoanele care arată ca argumentul nu are ce căuta acolo . Asa ca înainte sa te arunci in dezbateri invata sa respecti măcar regulile de bază pe care ai pretenția de la ceilalți sa le respecte. 79.112.213.55 (talk) 07:01, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I get attacked by both sides, rather vigorously, and my personal view of it is that I'm not actually against Christianity at all, I'm against certain forms of fundamentalism and, and, so virtually everything I say in my book are things that Christian scholars of the New Testament readily agree with, it's just that they are not hard-core evangelicals who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. If you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible then I suppose I'd be the enemy, but there are lot of Christian forms of belief that have nothing to do with inerrancy.

— Bart Ehrman, Bart Ehrman vs Tim McGrew - Round 1 at YouTube

Sunt atacat de ambele părți, destul de energic, iar părerea mea personală este că nu sunt deloc împotriva creștinismului, sunt împotriva anumitor forme de fundamentalism și, deci, practic tot ceea ce spun în cartea mea sunt lucruri cu care savanții creștini ai Noului Testament sunt pe larg de acord, doar că ei nu sunt evanghelici fanatici care cred în lipsa de erori a Bibliei. Dacă crezi în lipsa de erori a Bibliei, atunci presupun că aș fi inamicul, dar există o mulțime de forme de credință creștină care nu au nimic de-a face cu lipsa de erori.

— Bart Ehrman, Bart Ehrman vs Tim McGrew - Runda 1 pe YouTube

In other words, you cannot speak on behalf of mainstream Christianity, you speak instead for Christian fundamentalist fringes. tgeorgescu (talk) 13:43, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Why are you undoing my edits despite sources being provided?

I provided sources for my edits yet you changed them again? Raphael being an example.

Why are you incorrectly transliteration the Tiberian Hebrew? BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:10, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@BlackDragonCasimir: You did not WP:CITE any recent work by a full professor. So, your sources aren't WP:RS. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Incorrectly transliterating is what I meant to say. Are you familiar with Hebrew in anyway? Tiberian in particular? BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean professor? I gave the niqqud according to the actual MT such as with the name Raphael. What link to such a professor can I give for the name's vocalisation? BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:14, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@BlackDragonCasimir: Nope, I cannot read Hebrew. That's not what I am saying. You have to WP:CITE WP:RS per website policy. I.e. the WP:BURDEN is upon you, not upon the rest of us. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:15, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

So the information has to remain incorrect unless I can cite a professor, with any source (even if it is the original source material) being invalid is what you're basically saying?

Does such incorrect information currently there regarding the Hebrew come from a source from a professor?

How could I cite a professor for basic Hebrew pronounciation? Is this expected for any other languages? BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Also regarding your question in edit, I refer to the citations where the Hebrew I edited are. Not any I provided. I thought that would be quite obvious. BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:26, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@BlackDragonCasimir: Cut the craps, please. You don't fool me: there are no originals of the Bible of any possible sort. There are only copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies... and so on. See WP:VNT. And the pronunciation of modern Hebrew has nothing to do with the masoretic text. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:27, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I edited the pronounciation of Tiberian Hebrew not Modern. And what's your point? The vocalisation is from the Tiberian MT, which I provided a link to. You're showing your ignorance in this matter. Think before you speak. BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 23:31, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@BlackDragonCasimir: As I have told you, you want the change made, you have to provide scholarly sources (written by full professors at a bare minimum) for your changes. That's what WP:BURDEN means. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:35, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Then what are the "scholarly sources" for the current incorrect transliterations? I see none.

How do you expect me to provide such a source, regarding a small detail such as this as well pray tell?

If I corrected a spelling mistake for example, in another language such as English. Would you require a full source from a professor for the correction? I highly doubt it.

I see no difference regarding such a small detail of similar nature in Hebrew. The current transliterations are blatantly wrong, unsourced and clearly made by someone who cannot properly read Hebrew. Yet you seem to have no problem with this and would rather let incorrect information remain.

I would understand the request for such a source regarding changes of a greater nature, but not basic literacy. This just seems petty in all honesty.

I would also like to say that there was no need for such hostility in your previous response before this one. Surely it did not have to be explained that I was referring to the vocalisation when I spoke of original sources (such as the Tiberian vocalisation of the MT)? I was not speaking of originals of the Bible. I am well aware of the history of the Bible and the fact that there is no known original copies. Biblical Criticism is actually one of my main fields of interest.

My edits were in regards to the Masoretic vocalisation. I referred to the Masoretic Text as my original source for the vocalisation as that's exactly what it is. This should have been obvious, I don't know why your mind jumped to originals of the Bible despite no such thing being mentioned. BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 01:39, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Another note regarding your questioning of the reliability of my sources. I provided a link to the pronounciation of Shewa in Tiberian Hebrew to back up my changes. This one such as in my edit on Ahaz for example:

https://www.tiberianhebrew.com/shewa

If you look to the bottom of the link's page and read the material therein (showing my transliteration to be correct) you would see the source below for the information as:

"Khan, Geoffrey. 2020. The Tiberian Pronunciation Tradition of Biblical Hebrew. Cambridge: Cambridge and Open Book Publishers. §I.2.5." (These books are my main source for understanding Tiberian Hebrew, a fantastic read)

From Geoffrey Allan Khan FBA, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Cambridge. So I don't understand why my sources aren't reliable?

Would I have to provide a link to the information in his books themselves? I am unsure how to do this exactly (I have read them physically). Or would it suffice to refer to:

"Khan, Geoffrey. 2020. The Tiberian Pronunciation Tradition of Biblical Hebrew. Cambridge: Cambridge and Open Book Publishers. §I.2.5."

In citation alone? BlackDragonCasimir (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

@BlackDragonCasimir: Oh, no! Just find the word spelled in a bona fide scholarly work. E.g., an academic edition of the Masoretic Text. Same applies for pronunciation. Wikipedia has a ban upon original research.

Wikipedia does not trust its editors, it trusts sources, reliable sources. See WP:EXPERT.

This reminds me of school: a pupil told the teacher he learned how to pronounce the name Flechtenmacher, since he (the pupil) learns French. Same applies to trusting anonymous editors: we have no means by which we could establish your competence in Tiberian Hebrew. WP:CITE WP:RS or leave it as it is. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)