User talk:Rossharbors

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Hello, Rossharbors, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Draft:Kenny Olson, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's content policies and may not be retained. In short, the topic of an article must be notable and have already been the subject of publication by reliable and independent sources.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Kenny Olson

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A tag has been placed on Draft:Kenny Olson, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:28, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi - Tol I am confused why this topic would not be noteworthy as the subject, a guitarist has sold over 30 million albums and toured with Kid Rock as a core member of that band and many of his contemporaries and band members have wikipedia pages. I was in the process of documenting the sources - all major publications - for the article when it was deleted - I thought a draft had to be idle for 90 days before it would be deleted? please advise 68.55.59.230 (talk) 00:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi, IP/Rossharbors. I've moved your reply from the section welcoming you to the section on the page's speedy deletion. The issue was not whether Olson was notable — drafts are not evaluated for notability, so notability is not an issue. As specified in the message I left above, I requested for the page to be speedily deleted because it "seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes [its subject] and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic". This was because the tone of the draft was heavily promotional, and not encyclopedic. You are welcome to rewrite the draft with encyclopedic and neutral wording, avoiding promotional and overly positive content. (As for unedited drafts, they are deleted after six months with no human edits.) Tol (talk | contribs) @ 02:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank Tol appreciate the clarification. I may have misunderstood the part of your message that refers to a topic being notable. "In short, the topic of an article must be notable and have already been the subject of publication by reliable and independent sources."

I will rewrite with a neutral tone as requested, but this time how about letting me revise the post rather than requesting it to be speedily deleted? It took a lot of time to format and create the links - and I wasn't even done revising the draft, which would have included removing promotional messaging - and you had it deleted. Let me learn how to do this properly through iteration, rather than just removing the content before i can respond. yes I am a newbie but everyone is at some point. Rossharbors (talk) 22:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

No problem, Rossharbors. The first message (the "Welcome!" section) is a generic template for various kinds of deletion requests, so I can see how its wording could be confusing in this case; I'll see if I can edit the template to lessen potential future confusion.
If you intend to revise the draft to make its wording appropriately neutral, I will avoid re-tagging it for speedy deletion; however, if its tone is similarly promotional, other editors may still tag it for speedy deletion, and administrators may still delete it. I am not an administrator, so I cannot view deleted pages, but the deleting administrator, Jimfbleak, may be willing to email you the content of the draft so you can revise it. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 00:28, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Reply

Tol, thanks for ping. Rossharbors, if you have a conflict of interest, you must declare it, please don't write about yourself, your friends or relatives and read the guidance below:

• When you write about a person, you must provide independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that they meet the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the person or an associated organisation, press releases, YouTube, IMDB, social media and other sites that can be self-edited, blogs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the person claims or interviewing them. Note that references should be in-line so we can tell what fact each is supporting, and should not be bare urls.

• Almost all your text was unsourced and appears to be your personal opinions rather than verifiable facts. The few refs you did give were just dumped at the bottom, so we have no idea what part of the text, if any, each was supporting.

• You must write in a non-promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic, with verifiable facts, not opinions or reviews.

• Much of your text was just fan stuff rather than facts, full of glowing opinions like Olson has captivated audiences everywhere, showcasing his versatility and ability to seamlessly blend various musical genres. With a deep understanding of rhythm, a keen sense of melody, and dynamic, singing leads, Kenny Olson continues to leave a lasting impact on the music industry, having earned his place as a respected and sought-after guitarist. Not a single real fact, just "he's wonderful" Much more of the same follows. We need real facts, like awards and chart placings, not your admiration of his skill

• There shouldn't be any url links in the article, only in the "References" or "External links" sections.
• You must not copy text from elsewhere. Copyrighted text is not allowed in Wikipedia, as outlined in this policy. That applies even to pages created by you or your organisation, unless they state clearly and explicitly that the text is public domain. We require that text posted here can be used, modified and distributed for any purpose, including commercial; text is considered to be copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise. There are ways to donate copyrighted text to Wikipedia, as described here; please note that simply asserting on the talk page that you are the owner of the copyright, or you have permission to use the text, isn't sufficient.

Before attempting to write an article again, please make sure that the topic meets the notability criteria linked above, and check that you can find independent third party sources. Also read Your first article. If you are writing about yourself, or someone you know as a friend, colleague, client, employer or relative, you have a conflict of interest, and you must disclose the nature of that COI.

Personally, I think you would do better to start from scratch, but I'm prepared to email the text if you wish. You need to clarify the nature of your COI first though Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:24, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Jimfbleak - appreciate your taking the time to review the article and provide very helpful feedback. Understood RE conflict of interest - I thought I had declared this as part of the new article wizard workflow but I will state again here - I have no conflict of interest - I am not Kenny Olson, I do not know him, and I have no business interests with him. I study music and have wanted to get involved with wikipedia and thought that as a starting point I would find musicians who I feel are of note who are not yet represented on wikipedia and try to add them to the canon.

Thanks also for the specifics on tone, references, and copyrighted text - I'll ensure these policies are adhered to in the next draft. As I mentioned to Tol, the majority of issues there were as a result of the draft being in progress - I was revising and adding references when it was deleted - there was more work to be done before I intended to submit it for review.

I will start from scratch on the next draft Rossharbors (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we have a problem here. You say "I do not know him" yet you took a close-up photo of him File:KennyOlson.jpg, please clarify Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)