User talk:Roger Davies/EngVar

Comments here please

You might want to check out American and British English spelling differences for this - there are a few fairly significant differences there that you've missed here, such as -og vs -ogue (analog/analogue), and dropping "e"s (aging versus ageing). There are other nice little gotchas in there too.

What's the difference between the UK and US versions for "governor"? Or is that just there for an example where -or and -our doesn't apply? Carre (talk) 21:03, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. The og/ogue I wanted to think about because it's slightly complicated as are the ae/e (encyclopaedia/encyclopedia) oe/e permutations. I haven't basically decided about structure, you see, whether the summary style is better than direct comparison of actual words.

You're right about Governor. I was aiming to include common exceptions too.

Please keep popping back, this one will run and run, I think. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 21:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, you might want something on "misspelt" too - I've seen Americans object to that, and change it to "misspelled". And jewellery/jewelry (a fairly frequent edit/revert on the Jewellery article). Carre (talk) 22:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, dooly checked and added :) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 22:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

British do sometimes spell sulphur with an "f" instead. Gaia Octavia Agrippa (talk) 19:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Grey/Gray and Theater/Theatre

These are both interesting cases as both versions of the spelling are generally accepted in American English, but often with slightly different connotations. For example, "grey" is more poetic and wistful than "gray", but both are commonly used. "Theatre" is the spelling used for discussing cinema and plays in the context of serious art, while "theater" is used in the context of hollywood movies and less serious fare. The distinctions are subtle, however, and I doubt many people would be able to tell you the difference. Saying that only "gray" and "theater" are commonly using the U.S., however, isn't accurate, IMO. Not sure what the dictionaries have to say about this though. Kaldari (talk) 23:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll look at this again tomorrow but, in broad principle, I'm trying to ignore subtleties (I think a flag to check dictionary for detailed usage etc is probably the answer). Thanks very much for that and do pop by again if you think of anything else or just want to check on progress. --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 00:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

From what I've read, "grey" is an incorrect usage in American English, but is used occasionally by American writers who wish they were British, to put it bluntly. Wrad (talk) 00:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate the effort that has gone into this, I can only think of the line at WP:MOS: "Users are asked to take into account that the differences between the varieties are superficial." – Scartol • Tok 00:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Haha, yeah. Wrad (talk) 00:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you know of anything that suggests they aren't? I ask you this in your official capacity as spelling genius :)))) --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 10:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Neither MWU nor OED make this distinction. They regard them as standard (non-regional) variants. Is it possible that the distinction you perceive comes about from the retained BrEng spellings in, for example, the American editions of "The Lord of the Rings" of "The Grey Havens" and "Gandalf the Grey"?

Neither MWU nor OED mark ageing/aging as regional variants, just one of the normal inflected forms.

Theater/Theatre: Neither MWU nor CMOS make this distinction though it may be a developing usage.

--ROGER DAVIES ^talk

Double 'L'

Nice idea Roger ;)

You've touched on the double/single 'L' difference by listing modelling, but there's lots more of these (in the last few days I've had to revert spelling 'corrections' to signalling, labelled etc). I wonder if it might be helpful to state this as a general rule, as you have with ize/ise, rather than list every variant? Also for inclusion the list: armor/armour; meter/metre (and variants ie kilometre etc)?

EyeSerene^TALK 17:52, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I'm thinking of putting a "rules" section in, using the hide content template for each rule. This can cross-reference to alpha listings with the insertion of a middle column. The basic rule for -ing Ls is that if the stress is on the preceding syllable the L doubles in American English. So modeling and quarreling, but excelling and propelling. We also have mismatches on skillful and skilful. Add what you will. I'll have a mass MWU V OED health check early next month when I have more time. Keep chipping in (and please check for errors - I'm famous for my tpyos) , --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 18:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)