User talk:Middayexpress/Archive 2

I disagree =

I disagree with your poor choice of images brother, i don't want to include a Admin in our dispute because i have a sense of xishood that we as compatriots can handle and come to a mutual understanding/agreement on our own.

[*]There was nothing wrong with my images, most of them were placed because i have bigger plans for the article in question and lots of information would have been added eventually and therefore the images would have been just fine.

[*]Please state why you 'disagree' with my choice of images, and tell me exactly the ones that bother you.

[*] I dislike your inclusion of the Blackhawk helicopter because Somalia is more than that, it's this stereotype (or 2 min history of Somalia) that casts such a negative view on us. I don't see the relevance of Hadaftimo over a beautiful picture of a Camel in a famous Somali forest. Many articles of different countries have multiple cities on there page, why did you exclude cities like Kismayo and Merca from the Somalia page?

[*] The colonial period is only a tiny episode in Somali history but currently occupies a large part of article, there are hundreds of castles and fortresses aswell as stonecities from multiple dynasties,states,kingdoms and empires that are more important to a Somali person and these ruins illuminate our long history, be sure that i will add a selection of these monuments much the same articles like Iran and Egypt and their history pages are littered with their country's ruins and monuments

My intention is to improve the article! It has been static for months with lots of disinformation, this is somethimg that has to be remedied.

regards! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoobycentric (talk • contribs) 03:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll apologize for my display of anger but to be fair, i didn't expect a clean sweap again after we had discussed this last time regarding Mogadishu(alerting me of your opposition to the images on my talk page would have been better) It's nice that were are coming to a compromise brother. Somalia actually was never formally 'colonized'. The Italians and British both did not control Somalia untill the 20's of the 20th century(1920 in the case of Britain and 1925 in the case of Italy) Northern Somalia became a 'protectorate' of the UK while Italy 'occuppied' Southern Somalia untill 1941(much the same Germany occupied most of Europe for decade+ in that same timeperiod) when it was defeated in WW2, after that Somalia was under British military administration untill Southern Somalia became a trusteeship and northern Somalia continued being a protectorate. This makes Somalia similar to Afghanistan and Iran in terms of it's relationship with European powers and very different from the 'colonization' countries like Congo and Mali suffered. I wanted to use the environment section to show Somalia's diversity in nature. From the Sand dunes of Shalambood to the Mountains of shimbiris and the beaches of the coastal cities, all of this would give people a very different persepective of Somalia. My intention is to also include a section entitled 'cities' where a table displays the population rank aswell as images of the 4 largest cities(see list of cities and towns in Saudi Arabiaand therefore delete the unnecessary capital section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoobycentric (talk • contribs) 04:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

You have my support brother and i will submit several sources about Somalia's relationship with European powers when you do start! About the comparison with S.A well to be fair Somalia does have beautiful cities such as Merka[[1]],Garowe[[2]],Hargeisa[[3]][[4]] and Barawa[[5]] which could hold their own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoobycentric (talk • contribs) 04:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure getting permission won't be a problem for all these images, there also several compatriots i personally know that have breath taking images of Somalia so we will be okay brother --Scoobycentric (talk) 05:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

What a {....} deleting that picture and not giving a clear reason why, like he's somekind of a Dictator, we clearly won that argument. This is one of the reasons why we need to build a team of Wiki-Somalis aswell as cover all of our tracks or else similar incidents will happen to the cities and historical pictures that are coming soon. I have a beautiful idea on how to do the cities section. Do you have a SOL account?(so i can show you the photomontage example.)--Scoobycentric (talk) 21:07, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey bro I can't seem to find the option that says email this user there are only the following options; What links here - Related changes - User contributions - Logs - Upload file - Special pages etc. but no email user so let me know what i'm doing wrong because wax aan raba ku so diro, so that you can check it out for yourself and comment on it.--Scoobycentric (talk) 20:38, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks brother i will send you the image aswell as info first thing tomorrow(i don't have my USB currently)--Scoobycentric (talk) 21:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Mogadishu

Hey sxb i'm not interested in a edit war especially with a good wiki contributor such as yourself, but i'm dissappointed that you reverted my edits wholesale like i'm some kind of a troll/spammer. Those images dating from 1991/3 really need to go! Scoobycentric (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:55, 6 March 2009 (UTC).

I understand, btw it's not a concrete fact that it was founded by Arabs/Persians all of this is based on the 19th century book of Zanj and inscriptions on ancient Mosques in Somalia bearing Persian names, but those are just signatures of the architects, it doesn't tell us what the inhabitants were, cause if we DID take this route of thinking than most of the Islamic world was founded by Persians since Persian architects were widespread and there inscriptions are a testimony to this. Another point is the fact that Chittick who did excavations at Mogadishu stopped digging after several layers, each layer represents a century, he stopped somewhere in the 10th century AD and never managed to reach the maximum of layers during his time in Mogadishu because of lack of proper equipment(cities like Jericho have 30 layers and are dated to the 7000BC). Mogadishu could easily enter the realm of being a Pre-Islamic city as it is a strong contender to being the ancient city-state of Sarapion. Anyways during the height of Mogadishu's golden age there is no doubt in my mind that it was a Somali city. Salaam Scoobycentric (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC).

Hello

I applaud your work here. Peace, rkmlai (talk) 05:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi

Please refrain from deleting and removing information. Gaaroodi region is not the same as Maroodi Jeex. Use the internet and find out.

Hi

I will tomorrow make a phone call to Wikipedia Organization. You as a general user have no authority or power to give ' warnings ' to fellow cowriters.

You can trust me on this your revert wars and constant manipulation of Somali articles is coming to and end.

Redsoxbed (talk)

Redsoxbed (talk)

I'm not deleting information, Xetra80. I'm removing disinformation, which is your specialty, remember? Kindly stop with your POV. This is your last warning. Middayexpress (talk) 02:36, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

You're not a "co-writer", Xetra80. If you were, you wouldn't behave as you do. No... you are a sockpuppeteer and POV pusher circumventing your indefinitely blocked accounts with yet another sockpuppet account. In other words, you're the exact sort of editor Wikipedia doesn't want or need. It's funny how you don't even deny being Xetra80. Middayexpress (talk) 02:49, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Economy of Somalia

Hello! Could you explain each part instead of removing everything so I can fix errors? It would help me understand which parts we need to fix. Shabeellaha (talk) 10:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

So here is a list of changes I suggest we should do:

• Adding more information about oil exploration [6]
• Adding more information about telecommunications [7]
• Adding more information about history [8]
• Adding more information about Somali shilling [9]
• Removing two unsourced claims adding gemstones and salt [10]
• Also the claim about animal skin is unsourced and I don't believe it.

Shabeellaha (talk) 10:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Xetra80

The suspected sockpuppetry is duly noted, but I would avoid "inveterate", "never was all that bright" etc. Thanks. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Nur ibn Mujahid‎

I have a small problem with your last edit to this article. By putting his ethnic affiliation before his status as Emir of Harar, you imply that his being a Somali is more important than being Emir. If you don't mind, for that reason I'd like to resort the order of these attributes. (And if you do object -- hopefully for a good reason -- I'm not going to revert the edit.) -- llywrch (talk) 17:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I was a little concerned about the best way to approach you over this since you have been working on Somali topics, which is an area that is badly in need of help, & I don't want to discourage you from contributing. (I've been trying to fix what I can, but I know far too little about the country & the people, & some of the edits I've seen have been questionable.) -- llywrch (talk) 22:08, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well-known Somali female models as "See also"

We do not list members of similar groups under "See also" in their articles. Instead, we create categories for them. Otherwise, Eric Clapton's section would list the hundreds of members of Category:English male singers, New York City would list all of the members of Category:Port settlements in the United States, Oxygen would list all of the Category:Chemical elements, etc. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

People of Ethiopia

Hi, see the talk page for the article. I stopped to analyze the situation as the remover requested. I have restored the information now ... but the issue is legitimate to consider. (see that talk) Proofreader77 (talk) 02:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

PS... I see that you removed the comment on the talk page by the remover (for good reason).

If I had seen that comment, I would have just reverted the removal. lol In any case I have restored the information in the article. (That comment, of course, is rightfully gone.) Proofreader77 (talk) 02:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

African Immigrants

Hey bro. I summarized the graph about Sex and age. It has the same information, the important information, without the small percentages. It also gets the point across that most immigrants that come are between a certain age group-- and most are male. I'm writing this to you so that you don't open up wiki, discover it gone, and get into an edit war with me. From my experience back in school, Somalis aren't the most diplomatic people on the planet. But hopefully, my summary still has the data you wanted shown on the article because obviously the article doesn't belong to me, but to every wikipedia contributor. --Yellowfiver (talk) 09:12, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Ahmad Gragn

Uh, no my edits were not OR. If you take a look at my response at Wikipedia:No original research/noticeboard/Archive 3#Ahmad_ibn_Ibrihim_al-Ghazi, you'll see that the problem is that except for Somali nationalists, no one knows what his ethnic identity is. He may have been, in fact, Somali; or he may have been Afar, Balaw, Harari, or some ethnic group now forgotten. Hence I tried to lay out the evidence as objectively as possible, & left it to the reader to decide. (My primary reason for reverting back to this older version was that a number of footnotes were broken; if you disagree with me, at least take the time to fix them.) If I am guilty here of anything, it is pointing out that the experts in the field -- Pankhurst, Ullendorff, Tadesse Tamrat, Trimingham -- all refuse to state his ethnic background, thus making the question sub juridice. I hope you understand. -- llywrch (talk) 21:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. It actually proves what I've written; namely, that the edit was indeed original research. In fact, everyone on the Original Research Board in that link except for you and another Ethiopian editor (his handle is in the colors of Ethiopia) appears to agree with this. Your claim that no one knows al-Ghazi's ethnic identity except for Somali nationalists is also undermined by the myriad sources in the article from scholars who are not Somali that explicitly describe him as Somali. I also notice that you include Richard Pankhurst among the scholars who refuse to state al-Ghazi's ethnic background (that list also includes an Ethiopian, by the way => Tadesse Tamrat). However, you may want to remove him from that list since Pankhurst co-wrote a book with the late historian George Wynn Brereton Huntingford called The historical geography of Ethiopia from the first century AD to 1704‎ in which he states unambiguously that "Ahmed Gran was, it has been said, a Somali, and his headquarters were on the edge of the Somali country." That said, please understand that I don't question your motives and this is not personal; it's just what I see. Middayexpress (talk) 00:22, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Well. your response is far more kind than my previous disputant on this matter was. (And in case my words are ambiguous here, I am being sincere here; that editor's attitude almost had me quitting Wikipedia. Even if I'm wrong, I'd prefer that how I'm wrong is explained clearly to me.) First, I've worked with Yom in the past, & he is far more objective -- & informed -- on the matter than the colors of his handle might indicate. Further, after both of us had our say, no one responded, either to agree or disagree. (I remember following up with one participant to see if his opinions had changed after all of our writing -- only to be given a unhelpfully ambiguous response.) Second, the several different experts I discussed who claimed the Imam was Somali all did so with a degree of carelessness: they all were repeating a statement without considering its accuracy. As for Huntingford's book, I have read it (& cited from it in numerous Wikipedia articles), & I believe Pankhurst wasn't so much a collaborator as an editor -- which means unless Dr Pankhurst agreed with him in a footnote, he may not agree with Huntingford. (For example, I do remember one passage where Huntingford endorses the classical theory that Aksum civilization was transplanted from South Arabia, & in response Pankhurst added a footnote pointing out more recent research which suggests that while Aksum civilization was influenced by the South Arabian, it nonetheless was a native development.) Further, I would be surprised if Pankhurst did think Imam Ahmad was a Somali because in his book The Ethiopians (p. 85), he states that one of the Imam's first campaigns was to march "eastwards to subjugate the Somalis, many of whom he later recruited into his army -- not exactly the language I expect him to use if he did believe Imam Ahmad Gragn was Somali.

At this point, I am tempted to simply email Dr Pankhurst to ask him if my read of the matter is correct (& hopefully that he will point me to an article that I can use to verify this) -- or if I am misunderstanding the whole matter. -- llywrch (talk) 05:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Pankhurst wasn't an editor, but a co-writer in the book above. And his co-author was one of the more prolific East African specialists of his day. If you have access to the 1989 edition of the book, that quote identifying al-Ghazi as Somali can be found on page 135. I've also managed to find an online edition of R.S. Whiteway's translation of Castanhoso's "The Portuguese Expedition to Abyssinia". You can find the passage where he identifies al-Ghazi as Somali on page xxxiii. Middayexpress (talk) 06:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Waris Dirie.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Waris Dirie.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. —Ed 17 ^{(Talk / Contribs)} 23:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Somali shilling

Are you sure that in Somalia the Kenyan shilling and the euro aren't used? I also placed the Somalian flag near the counrty name, why did you delete this one too? -- User:Laurentiu Popa (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC).

Yes, I'm quite sure the Somali shilling is the official currency in Somalia, and not the Kenyan shilling (huh?) or the Euro. I'm sure you meant well with your edits, but they're just plain wrong and this is why I reverted them. Middayexpress (talk) 20:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Iman (model) article

Please don't rename the Iman (model) article again.

You assumed that because the ANI report didn't link to the talk page discussion, I hadn't read that prior to making the change. Your assumption was a mistake. Prior to taking any action as an uninvolved administrator, I read the whole article name thread, going back more than 2 weeks. I reviewed the policy, and the contributors arguments and opinions within the thread on the talk page.

In my judgement, there is a consensus - 4 of the talk page participants support Iman (model) and 2 supported Iman Abdulmajid. The discussion went on for more than 2 weeks. There were numerous posts and discussions on each side. 4:2 after 2 weeks does constitute a consensus by Wikipedia standards.

You are welcome to continue discussing the issue and try to change people's minds. The policies aren't so rigid as to prevent a local consensus from overriding them, in a case like this. But in this case, policy and the local consensus agree.

You are free to disagree with that, and try to change people's minds. But you're not free to reject the finding that there is a consensus.

Please don't rename the article again until and unless you can actually change people's minds in the article talk page discussion. You're welcome to ask for review on the thread on the administrators' noticeboard if you believe I misread the consensus somehow. But all of the people who expressed opinions said so more than once, and I believe their opinions stayed the same after your and Kaaveh's comments and discussion arguments.

Please respect your fellow contributors, even if you disagree with them. Thank you.

Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I see you've moved the page back. Only this time you've indicated that consensus has been reached because the "vote" apparently was 5 to 2. However, last I checked, Wikipedia was not a democracy:

"Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy or any other political system. Its primary but not exclusive method of determining consensus is through editing and discussion, not voting. Although editors occasionally use straw polls in an attempt to test for consensus, polls or surveys sometimes impede rather than assist discussion."

But just who exactly are these 5 other editors anyway? I'm looking at the Administrator's Noticeboard, and I only see one editor -- hmwithτ -- voting in favor of SummerPhD. One other editor simply asked a question that the other answered. And all of this discussion took place without SummerPhD even having the courtesy to link to this talk page discussion (I don't blame him, though). That would therefore make it only two editors plus yourself versus myself and the person who originally renamed the page. Last I checked, that was not nearly enough to constitute WP:CONSENSUS. By the way, if you count your vote, then you're essentially an involved administrator and therefore cannot avail yourself of your administrator privileges for this dispute. And don't tell me to "respect" my fellow editors when I haven't disrespected them to begin with. If you think I have, I dare you to produce evidence in that direction. Middayexpress (talk) 22:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)