User talk:Leoboudv/Archive 2

Re: Pharaoh infobox sizes

I think the answer to that is easy: take a look at the nomen for Smendes and Ramesses XI in comparison to the longest part of the royal titulary for the other two you cite. I don't believe the hieroglyphic font being used on Wikipedia is scalable, and there's no easy way to write the hieroglyphics in a vertical rather than a horizontal manner. We may be stuck with what we have, but it is at least better than nothing. ;-)

Just got around to adding some material (and image galleries) to the articles on Kiya and Narmer. I think I may have a picture of Kiya on a talatat from one of my trips that I haven't processed as yet. Kiya needs considerable cleaning up, though my sources for her are few.

I saw the "exhange of views" on Ay being a murderer of Tutanhkamun, with the anon IP presumably being Egyptzo(?) Found a word-for-word copyright violation while trying to source the book he was citing (which, I have yet to confirm actually exists in the updated form that was claimed). Busted any legitimacy the poster had as far as I was concerned. Cheers from several time zones ahead of you. Captmondo 02:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Pictures of Narmer

Glad you like the various pics of Narmer I posted to "his" article. Again, this is one of those things that the Web in general (an Wikipedia specifically) can excel in over and above traditional print media: instead of having a single illustration of an item, multiple representative pictures can be added. Hopfully over time the cumulative nature of Wikipedia will allow other people to add their own pics of things, and who knows, maybe something new will be discovered along the way. ;-)

By the way, the Narmer Macehead is not my photo, though I posted it to Wikimedia on behalf of someone else. (With luck I may be able to head to that museum later this year -- time will tell).

Some other gallery sections on pages that might be of interest to you that I have pulled together:

• Great Temple of the Aten
• KV54
• Reserve heads
• Senemut
• Thutmose (sculptor)

This may go some way to explaining why I have spent more time on Wikimedia of late than on Wikipedia.

Cheers! Captmondo 19:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Amenhotep III

The next step on the way to featured is probably the Good Article nomination. It'll probably get more comments than if it goes through peer review or a copyedit, anyway... the peer review system here really has never been any good. At any rate, I'll nominate it for GA and someone will review it, however there's currently a big backlog, so it may take a few weeks. I agree that the article is better than many, but some of the phrasing could stand to be a little more concise, and the number of quotes is likely to concern some editors, so it may not go through the GA nomination well. We'll see. Thanatosimii 13:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Writing Hieroglyphics in Wikpedia

While writing something to Alensha I saw a previous posting you had made to her asking how to write hieroglyphs in Wikipedia (I also remember getting an email from you saying that you didn't know how). From what I can tell there are in fact two ways of doing it: phonetically and using a sign list. My command of the language is insufficient to tackle the first option, though I note that as long as you know the signs and enclose them in hiero tags, they will be converted automatically to their syllabic equivalents.

For rank amateurs such as myself, I instead resort to a full listing of the signs and piece together everything painstaking by hand. The master list I use is Gardiner's list, helpfully divided upon into several categories of signs, which can be found on Wikimedia at: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiHiero/Syntax#Gardiner.27s_sign_list.

The best way to learn this is to "play" with it: take an existing example from an article, then take the code to your own sandbox and try inserting Gardiner's codes into it in order to match whatever pictorial source you have for the cartouche/Egytpian phrase.

Cheers! Captmondo 16:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

Captmondo already told the most important things about writing hieroglyphs here, I'm just adding a few useful bits:

• You can start and end a cartouche with <- and ->
• Putting a colon between two signs means the second one will be under the first one,
• If you need to put two signs under one, write an asterisk between the two,
• Most of the very common glyphs can be written not only by their Gardiner number but by just typing them as well, e.g. the wave that means the n sound can be written either as "N35" or as "n", similarly, sun can be written not only as "N5" but as "ra".
• Here you can find the meanings of the glyphs too, not only their Gardiner sign, but last time I checked it was only partially translated, so some knowledge of German helps.
• Here is a hieroglyph, if you open this page for editing, you will see how is it written.

regards, – Alensha ^talk 17:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Amenemope and Siamun

When it comes to royal titulary, you can always count on Spanish Wikipedia, they have all the five names for almost all pharaohs. Check es:Amenemope and es:Siamón. Though their spelling of Amenemope's name is a little different than what I've seen in Dodson's Complete Royal Families, page 203, where the "mer" hieroglyph was left out and the two god figures were facing each other (I guess that's not possible with this wikicode). – Alensha ^talk 19:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Second Intermediate Period and Ryholt

As I've said, I don't have access to this book, but I've got some concerns about this period which pretty much need its input, so I wonder if you might be able to help me. In List of pharaohs, I discovered that our pages on the kings named in.t.f in egyptian are titled variously Intef and Antef. I was going to switch them all to one or the other, however I discovered that there is both an Antef V in the 13th dynasty, and an Intef V in the 17th dynasty. There is, however, no Antef or Intef IV. Do you know if the Antef V in the 13th should be Antef IV, or is somthing else strange going on here... Thanks for any help. Thanatosimii 16:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC

Hmm... It's just that I was doing some more research, and found an Intef V in the 17th dynasty in Redford's Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt... Also, if it is Intef V is in the 13th Dynasty, where is Intef IV? Dear me, the 2nd intermediate period is confusing! I'll look through those scans again, and if you understand the solution to this particular problem, it would help me a lot. Thanks. Thanatosimii 22:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I think I get it now... I'm still confused why I find an Antef V in the 17th Dynasty in one book, though, but I suppose that's another numbering mistake as well. Thanatosimii 00:56, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Amenhotep I

Yes, I know that there isn't much argumentation for a coregency, I just thought I'd flush out what the theory actually was. I do note that both possible coregencies aren't generally accepted. As for the photo, I believe Captmondo is the one who obtained it. He seems to be coming up with a wealth of images due to his travels of late.

I suppose the lack of Amenhotep III Images merits including whatever we have, however I'd prefer to see some context provided which that image fits, instead of just leaving it there. Amenhotep III is known to have left prolific remains behind, both artistically and architecturally. A section should probably be composed eventually (I have a few sources, but I'll get on looking for more) about these artworks, and the image would fit there better. However, until such a paragraph is included, I suppose the image isn't too conspicuously irrelevant where it is. Thanatosimii 05:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Neferneferuaten

Interesting bit of research; I hope you don't mind I made a few tweaks -- when our edits weren't conflicting. I suggest that you nominate this article for Wikipedia:Did you know, where it could be exhibited on the Main page. I think this would easily qualify, since few people would know that she was one of the few Queens of ancient Egypt. -- llywrch 05:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Tiye?

I just saw the message you left on my Talk page. My name isn't "Keith" -- I'm not sure I've mentioned it on Wikipedia, but I know it's not that hard to find (FWIW, it's Geoff). Were you directing that message to me? I don't remember us talking about Tiye lately. -- llywrch 01:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC) Oh sorry. I mixed you up with Captmondo. My apologies Leoboudv 08:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Hyksos

Yeah, I know that user well. He's totally blocked and banned and the works for horrid behavior over in Armenia. We just need someone to block his new sockpuppets. Thanatosimii 23:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

One of his recent postings including a reference to a Scientific American article from the early 90s that I had remembered reading, and knew that his argument very much over-reached the actual conclusions of the authors. He then reverted my deletion saying that it came from a book (with no page reference, naturally) instead. I have been keeping tabs on the situation peripherally, and I think there are only a few possible solutions for those of us who wish to retain the integrity of the information on this topic in Wikipedia:

- Do the work and upgrade the article to Feature Article status: I don't know if I can be of too much help in this area, as all I can contribute are references from a single substantive work in my personal library. However improving the article will keep the spotlight on it and administrators will be more adept at spotting and closing the sock puppet-ing.

- One of us becomes an administrator, with the intention of keeping watch over the Egyptological articles: I would gladly nominate you, Leoboudv for the position, as you are clearly a regular and conscientious contributor in good standing. Ditto Thanatosimii, but previous post in this thread excepted, his talk page says that he is on an extended break. I could also do the job (and if you nominate me I would accept), but every now and then business or teaching takes me out of the picture for a while. Administrators have access to better tools against sock puppetry, and having a administrator who is fair and knowledgeable in things Ancient Egyptian is a good thing in general.

-Try to contain the views in an "Alternate theories" sub-section: am guessing this has already been tried, and that the sock puppet contributor is unlikely to see his pet theory as anything but mainstream.

-Cede the ground to him on this point: not a palatable option, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention it. Not one I can live with though.

Now that my teaching is done for the school year I plan on doing more on Wikipedia over the summer, and if there is anything either of you would like to collaborate on that I can help with substantially, I'd be glad to do so.

Cheers! Captmondo 12:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Another option, I think, is to get semi-protection for the page. That would block all anon editors, and new accounts for a "probation period", although I don't know how long. Of course, that would require an admin to set, but I think we can make a case for it. ~ MD Otley (talk) 22:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: The mother of Ramesses IV and VI

Dear Fabian,

Dodson & Hilton's book says Iset Ta-Hemdjert is the mother of these two kings. What source says she wasn't? – Alensha ^talk 21:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I also left a note on the talk page of this Semenmedjatre. – Alensha ^talk 21:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Ramessesnakht is not included in the Dodson book, because he was not royal. Most of what I know about him is from the Oxford History of Ancient Egypt, but the info in that book is already included in the article, so I couldn't add anything, only a category. regards, – Alensha ^talk 16:02, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Akhenaten and Muwatalli

Thanks for the links to the articles, they are very interesting, especially the Muwatalli one.

I'm not a member of EEF yet but I often read their archives. I'm planning to join their mailing list.

regards, – Alensha ^talk 11:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, 2 million articles, that's really something :) I know that a large amount of the articles are stubs and duplicates, but it's still nice that wikipedia is this big. I'm sceptical about Citizendium, they grow very slowly, and WP is much more famous, so we attract more editors.

Thanks for the article about Hattusili, it's very interesting! – Alensha ^talk 23:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Request to add your opinion/vote to renaming of KV62 -> Tomb of Tutankhamen

As someone whose opinion I value, I am asking if you would take a peek at Talk:KV62, and voice your opinion on the suggested move. I am not trying to solicit an Oppose vote, but instead am trying am asking people who have an active interest in things Ancient Egyptian to contribute to the talk as well. Cheers! Captmondo 17:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for adding your opinion/vote to the Talk:KV62 re: KV62 -> Tomb of Tutankhamen. I wanted to solicit opinions/votes from those I thought might have a real interest in the issue. Ultimately the main thrust of the argument for centers around WP:NC, which I think is being too broadly applied in this instance (but that's my opinion). Though I read more oppose votes than for, in the end there was no consensus (a simple majority may not apply in this case) to move, so there's every chance the debate will continue sometime in the future.

As an aside, I was somewhat surprised to find that your name does not appear in the "Participants" list on WP:KMT. As someone who is so active on Ancient Egyptian articles on Wikipedia, I really think your login name ought to appear there, though of course that is entirely up to you. Cheers! Captmondo 11:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Cheers! Captmondo 11:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This discussion has now moved to Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Ancient Egyptian). Can you add anything to the discussion? Markh (talk) 19:45, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Again, I just wanted to say "thank you" with regards to this ongoing discussion. Your longish post pointing out the name variants for "Yuya" added a few more that I hadn't run across before. Am hoping that this will settle down that both sides can live with soon, and may help spur serious talk in other areas as well (such as standardizing on names, spellings, etc.)

On a different issue altogether I have been done some digging in the Menes article of late, and I just wanted to check on this with you prior to posting, since you appear to have an interest in the early dynastic period. Ian Shaw's take on Menes seems to be that he is a fully legendary figure, likely a mis-reading of a place name that appears on jar dockets associated with Narmer and Hor-Aha. He also says in passing that Menes' name appears on the Palermo Stone (which I have been unable to confirm from other sources) and the legend was certainly current by the time of Herodotus and Manetho. So am thinking of overhauling the Menes article, but wanted to check in with you first to see if this jibes with your understanding of the topic. Thanatosimii's take is that Shaw "has a tendency to accept newer theories as fact which have not necessarily yet convinced the entire Egyptological establishment". Any thoughts on the topic?

Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Neferneferuaten

Hi,

I've just seen the hieroglyphs in the Neferneferuaten article – do you happen to know some reliable sources where we can look up the correct version? Right now it says "nefer-nefer-Aten", with at least two nefers missing, and the nefers precede Aten's name which is unusual IMO. Also, I thought the prenomen was Ankhetkheperure, though I guess the -t ending could be left off...

regards,

– Alensha ^talk 00:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Rationale for fair use

I think the better formatted rationales are less likely to be challenged. I already have had my own face deleted twice. The first time I was told if I am in the photo, I couldn't have taken it, so I can't be the copyright holder. The second time it was my school photo, and I was told the photographer owns it, so if someone wants to delete it, they will. The best advice is to save your articles off Wikipedia as I do at Pages.Google.com and Base.Google.com. See here for a well formatted rationale: [1] --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello there -- I saw your message to me asking me whether or not I had noticed any change with regard the use of fair rationale images on Wikipedia. I would say that while the policy has not changed, it does seem to be more rigorously enforced these days. On the whole I think we may be seeing consolidation within Wikipedia, as those who may have previously edited are moving on to other aspects of things, such as checking the copyright validity of images. Unfortunately in many cases I ran across people who simply flag a problem but don't always leave adequate instructions as to how to bring things up to snuff. Luckily most of the images I have shot have been of ancient artifacts from various museums so from a copyright standpoint I am in the clear, but a few album covers I had scanned and uploaded fell afoul of fair use restrictions. I had to let some go before I sorted out the proper justification process for it. Best of luck, and happy holidays! Captmondo (talk) 11:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Ramesses & Star Trek

Dear Leoboudv, here's what I found about the parents of Ramesses IX in Dodson & Hilton's book: on the basis of the naming of one of his sons, it has been suggested that his father might have been Mentuhirkhopshef B (son of R III), and his mother may be Takhat, whose only title in her tomb is "King's Mother". (She was buried in the same tomb with Baketwernel, who might have been the wife of Ramesses IX.)

Yes, I'm a trekkie, but I only like TOS and TNG. DS9 is fine but I prefer Babylon 5 to that one. I could never really get into VOY and ENT. I'm eagerly anticipating the new movie, but it will be very hard for the actors to live up to the expectations. For most fans it will be hard to accept that new actors play Kirk, Spock and the others. – Alensha ^talk 17:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Length of Battle of Kadesh Quote

Hi. Concerning your comment to me on the inclusion/exclusion of extensive quotes. As that is a point of "philosophy" rather than fact, I'll just try to trigger a discussion of it on the B. of Kadesh discussion page and see if it gets any commentary from others. There was one minor point, however, that doesn't need to be included in such a discussion, so I'll address it here for you: the translation in ANET wasn't done by Pritchard, it was done by John Wilson. Pritchard was the editor of the book. This isn't meant to disparage the translation. Wilson was also a highly respected Egyptologist. It's just a minor correction. Cheers. Publik (talk) 13:29, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

---

Per your most recent comments: Thank you for your reversion on the Mursili III article. I haven't been perusing the Hittite kings much lately, as nothing was changing. As for my status; I attended graduate school studying this stuff, and then went and got a job that pays. I've got a lot of the sources used in these Wikipedia articles sitting on my shelf, and a lot more in articles piled up in a filing cabinet. I enjoy keeping active in this stuff, and try not to get too grumpy about it. I have mixed success there.

One historical summary that I haven't seen is Tyldesley. (Egypt isn't actually my field of interest, Hittitology is.) I'm a little ambivalent on this work based upon some of the citations I've seen used from it. But I have to be cautious here, since I haven't read it. However, I'm sure it's better than the online military "history" articles that get frequently used. Those smoothly mix fact with error with opinion which, if you aren't familiar with the sources, you would be hard pressed to sort out.

On your final note, I have seen the bloated Ramesses II article. Kudos on recognizing the importance of references! The Battle of Kadesh section is simply an old version of the B. of Kadesh article that got cut and paste into Ramesses' bio. It certainly doesn't belong there! However, I'd just go in there with a machete and cut the whole thing out, write a very brief summary concentrating on how the battle is relevant within his reign, and direct readers to the Battle article for the details. This would probably set off an edit war that I don't have the stomach for. I'll let the Egyptology fans handle that one. My philosophy, though, is to think like a haiku - convey the thought in as few words as possible. I'm horrible at it, but that's my ideal, anyway. (For example, I don't even like the long-period background for the Battle of Kadesh, as I think the article is about the battle, not about the history of Egyptian imperialism in the Levant. I think all of that could be wrapped up in about two sentences, and then point to some relevant history of Egypt article. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority opinion here, so I've left it.) Cheers. Publik (talk) 05:31, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, only to tell you that we might start an "election" of the best battle section, it will be "my" version against "Egyptzo's" version. Super Knuckles (talk) 00:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Well the article was kinda of cut off because we used a version that didn't have historynet references, and we have been adding some info, and re-adding some of the "lost" info. Also thanks to the imrpovements you did to the battle section I wrote, those small words you change actually make quite a difference, for the better. I'm also having some work, but once I'm able I will try to add references or even new info to the article with my new source the Mark Healy's book, Ramesses - Battle of Kadesh. Cheers Super Knuckles (talk) 07:31, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk page archiving

I just used the old cut-and-paste routine. The archive page could be User talk:Leoboudv/Archive 1, for example. This is called a user sub-page, and you can have any number of sub-pages for different purposes, such as sandboxes, places for draft articles, and talk archives. Just cut and paste the text to the new page and add a link to the archive on your main talk page. You can also add the appropriate archive templates on the sub-pages and an archive box on the main talk page. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 14:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Tutankhamun

See Tutankhamun#Name. In his case, the titulary was so long I made a separate table for it. I did this a few months ago. It might be a good idea, though, to put some text like see below in the box to direct the reader to the appropriate location. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hittite commander

Hattusili consistently and repeatedly gave credit to his brother Muwattalli for defeating the Egyptian king. Further, Hittite kings are known to have led their troops in battle. In his Apology, he mentions leading all the Hittite troops, but "Hatti" can refer either to the kingdom overall, or to the narrower confines of the Hittite core land around Hattusa. It is safer to conclude he led the troops of his own vassal kingdom along with the troops of the core of Hatti. Anything else would require strong evidence. Publik (talk) 13:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

(Erh, by the way... the "his" of the Apology is Hattusili III. I forget that things like that might not be apparent to everyone.) Publik (talk) 20:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Kadesh

What happened is that I discovered that huge amounts of it were copyright violations from taxman's article on Historynet, and as it was more or less impossible to take them out piecemeal, I reverted to the first version before the historynet stuff. Obviously this cut out other stuff which I have slowly been replacing. I'm not sure how good Healy is, and I find Tyldsley slightly sloppy at times. What is actually the source for the 2nd set of spies being beaten? I don't see it in the Egyptian texts, maybe I haven't read them carefully enough. And, as Goedicke doesn't think Ramesses was trying to capture Kadesh, I've been trying to think of a way to work in his opinion. I took out the bit about the 2nd set of spies as it was copyvio and was planning to replace it. Egyptzo has had 48 hour ban as it's been discovered he has been copying and pasting for a huge amount of his edits from various sites and forums. Have you looked at the article's talk page?Doug Weller (talk) 07:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Pedantic of me probably but she also calls the Shasu 'Bedouin'. They aren't (as I've pointed out in a footnote), they are nomads and that shouldn't be synonymous with the Bedouin, who ride/rode camels. It makes an unwarranted and unnecessary assumption (probably following writers with a Biblical bent). I'd still like to find the source for the spies being beaten though. I'm wondering if it isn't an assumption from the frieze. There's a discussion at User talk:Publik you might want to read.Doug Weller (talk) 10:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Herihor

I really don't know anything about this, but here is what a friend says, although you probably know this all anyway:

In 1997, in Jansen-Winkeln, K. 1997. Die thebanischen Gründer der 21. Dynastie. Göttinger Miszellen 157: 49-74 The author placed Piankh again before Herihor and argues that Pinnedjem I and Herihor are close contemporaries, defending his view against a number of counteropinions. The chronological consequences of the order Piankh - Herihor for the XXIst Dynasty were considered against the objections raised by other scholars.

Also in the same year, Otto Egberts examined this position in Egbert, O. 1997. Piankh, Herihor, Dhutmose and Butehamun: a fresh look at O. Cairo CG 25744 and 25745. Göttinger Miszellen 160: 23-25. In this article, the author considered the ostraca CG 25744 and 25745, both from the Valley of the Kings, which are drafts of letters to Herihor and Piankh. Though thought by Cerný to be both of the same hand, namely the Scribe of the Tomb Butehamun, the writing of the article /pA/ shows letter CG 25745 to Piankh to be actually written by Butehamun's father Dhutmose. This seems rather to corroborate the order Piankh - Herihor.

In 1992, Andrzej Niwinski gave a compelling timeline for the intertwining of the reigns in Niwinski, A. 1992. Bürgerkrieg, militärischer Staatsstreich und Ausnahmezustand in Ägypten unter Ramses XI. Ein Versuch neuer Interpretation der alten Quellen. In I. Gamer-Wallert and W. Helck, ed.s, Gegengabe. Festschrift für Emma Brunner-Traut: 235-262. Tübingen: Attempto Verlag Niwinski's argument is summarised as follows, from the AEB: The author started with discussing the problem of the year dating after the /wHm-mswt/ era in the tomb robberies papyri written in the reign of Ramses XI. This era was proclaimed on day 1, 1st month of akhet in his 19th regnal year, which began on day 20, 3rd month of shemu, the day of the accession to the throne. It was meant to mark a break with a painful recent past, together with the oracle for Herihor giving all power into his hands. All the relevant events referred to in the tomb robbery papyri must have taken place in year 18 or the beginning of year 19.

The hardest was the civil war in the struggle between the high priest Amenhotep and viceroy Panehsy representing the royal government and army. The author's explanation for the "war against Amenhotep" is that Panehsy, the most powerful person in the Thebaid, set up a military coup by his own decision and without royal support. Amenhotep may not have been killed then, but helped by the king, without gaining back his former position, however. A source of conflict was Amenhotep's accusation of atrocities by the Nubian soldiers of Panehsy against the Theban population, whereupon Panehsy received the royal command to leave Thebes and to travel south.

Nine months after the war had started, Herihor's army dispelled that of Panehsy, the later enemy of state, to the south. Again two months later the /wHm-mswt/ era was proclaimed. Thebes was under martial law owing to the dictatorial power of Herihor, the continuous menace of the Thebaid from outside, and the reconstruction of the land. The trip of the high priest and general Piankh with an army to Nubia served the purpose of peace negotiations with Panehsy rather than that of a campaign. Panehsy, buried in Aniba, can be considered the founder of an independent Nubia.

The last years of Ramses XI witnessed a coup d'état by the Lower Egyptian army, after which the king was discarded. In this coup three non-royal generals played a role: Herihor, Smendes and Piankh. Piankh's son Pinodjem married into the royal family, Herihor engaged himself in creating the Theban theocracy, and Smendes became head of the "State of Amun in the North," sanctioned by an oracle of Amon and the legitimacy of queen Tentamun. The royal palace in the capital Pi-Ramesse was unapt in such a situation, and Tanis was founded as a new centre of power. Ramses XI may not have left his capital at the introduction of the wHm-mswt era in Thebes; he may not even be buried there. Herihor completely overshadowed him, and actually functioned as pharaoh. I've got nothing to add I'm afraid. Doug Weller (talk) 13:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Moscow Mathematical Papyrus

Yes, he is. He is "the second" V. Struve. Namely this one. Cmapm (talk) 01:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for creating article on him. Maybe I'll expand it somewhere in the future. Right now I'm a little bit busy, because I'm describing orders and decorations of Barclay de Tolly displayed on his portrait in the Winter Palace - quite a different topic :) Cmapm (talk) 01:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Dear Leoboudv, thank you for your kind words! The point is that I had read a lot of articles, in Wikipedia in particular, and my English got better a little bit :) I do my best to improve articles here, although I have significantly less time than I used to. You can feel absolutely free to ask me for any help or clarifications in the future. I wish you and myself a happy sailing in the world of knowledge. Best regards, Cmapm (talk) 23:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Image upload

Image uploaded here: Image:Neferefre Abusir Pyramid.jpg. They seem to have changed the upload form over on commons; the way I used to do it was to simply copy/paste the entire description page on the new file upload, then just change out the specific link pointing to the image page. Do you have an account over on commons? You have to have an account to upload a file, and then you could simply copy and paste the image descriptions if you need to upload a file. Hope that helps Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 19:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Copyright free images

Do you know what tag I should attach to an image if I access it from this site at egyptarchive.co.uk: [2]? The author states explicitly they are copyright free. I checked the 'index' section and he has an impressive collection of images. One was used for king Neferirkare Kakai here: [3] I have never uploaded an image onto Wikicommons and this is a unique case. How many sites say they feature copyright free images? Not many, I suppose.

BTW, I did notify Mr. Bodsworth that I used his image for pharaoh Neferirkare Kakai. The previous image of this king's pyramid was badly marred by the presence of a person in the picture. Any help you can give is appreciated on approaching copyright feee images. Thank You, Leoboudv (talk) 05:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. You may find you get a quicker response in future to questions like this at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

You can use {{PD-release}} and place a link to that contact page on the image description page. Stifle (talk) 22:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyright free

Dear Stifle, This image was made by a contributor who attached the copyright free tag to this stunning quartzite statue of pharaoh Amenhotep III--the father of Akhenaten. [4] The picture is another copyright free image from egyptarchive.co.uk.

Do you know how I would create this specific CF tag in the picture? I assume it would be {{pd-XX}} but I don't know the exact words are for the two XX's. Or would public domain be good enough? I'm sorry to disturb you...its just that I'm an amateur at uploading pictures to Wikicommons. Thank You from Canada Leoboudv (talk) 05:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

{{PD-old}} (for works out of copyright where the author has been dead for over 70 years),

{{PD-Art}} (for photos of old paintings and art out of copyright),

{{PD-ineligible}} (for trivial work)

{{PD-USGov}} (for work by the U.S. federal government),

The tag on that page is {{Copyrighted free use}}.

If you create an image yourself and want to release it to the public domain, use {{PD-self}}. Stifle (talk) 09:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Description: Poster for Port of Shadows 1938.

Rationale for use on Wikipedia: 1.No free equivalent exists that would effectively identify the article's subject. 2.The image does not in any way limit the ability of the copyright owners to market or sell their product. 3.The image is only used once and is rendered in low resolution to avoid piracy. 4.The image has been published outside Wikipedia; see source above. 5.The image meets general Wikipedia content requirements and is encyclopedic. 6.The image meets Wikipedia's media-specific policy. 7.The image is used in the article wiki-linked in the section title. 8.The image is significant in identifying the subject of the article, which is the film or film character itself. 9.The image is used in the article namespace. 10.The image has a brief description that identifies the image, notes the source, and provides attribution to the copyright holder.

Resolution: The copy is of sufficient resolution for commentary and identification but lower resolution than the original. Copies made from it will be of inferior quality, unsuitable as artwork on pirate versions or other uses that would compete with the commercial purpose of the original artwork.

Replaceable?: As a film poster, the image is not replaceable by free content; any other image that shows the images from the movie poster would also be copyrighted, and any version that is not true to the original would be inadequate for identification or commentary.

Compatibility with wikipedia?: Use of the film poster in the article complies with Wikipedia non-free content policy and fair use under United States copyright law as described above.

Process for listing at AfD

The whole process is outlined at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#How to list pages for deletion. It's all explained thoroughly there. --Closedmouth (talk) 10:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your attention to the AfD. But FYI it's generally discouraged to change the formatting of others' comments (even if the spelling is wrong or whatever). I intended for the word to be un-bolded because I prefer to think of that comment as more of adding to the discussion rather than voting. Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 01:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Brokop

I hadn't heard anything about that #1 either. The most that I could find to back it up is Matt Spicher's Wikipedia entry, which says:

2007 - Single "Band in the Window" tops the European Chart (ECMA) #1 for 6 weeks

So it's not impossible, but I don't know for sure. Eric444 (talk) 00:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Without a reliable source, it's probably best left off of her page, but it is an interesting bit of trivia for sure. And let me say how jealous I am. I'm a big fan of Lisa's, but I've never had the opportunity to meet her. Eric444 (talk) 01:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I just got your other message. Lisa co-wrote "Band in the Window," but it was Pam Tillis who recorded it. Eric444 (talk) 01:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: Wiki AE

I have performed the two edits you requested. To float a piece of text or a template to the right of a page add the code {| align="right | text |}.[5] About the WP:ANEGY list of members, yes I do see how that could be confusing. The actual list is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Members and is "transcluded" as a template onto the WP:ANEGY mainpage. I have added you to the list.[6]

As to whether I am an admin or not; within a couple of months hopefully. In the future if you want to learn this, you can go to Special:Users, type in someones username and it will show you all the userrights they have.

Keep up the good work and welcome to Wikiproject Ancient Egypt! - Icewedge (talk) 06:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: the correct link is Special:ListUsers. - Icewedge (talk) 07:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Wikiproject AE question

• To find out what pages link to a Wikipedia page, use the Special:Linksearch page; for example, this shows all of the Wikipedia pages linked to the ancient-egypt site.
• As for your "copyright-free" question, the idea of commons is that all of the material is under a free license. "Copyright free for non-commercial use" doesn't fit the rules for free license, so any content so licensed has to be used on Wikipedia under Fair Use -- with all of the "Fair use" complications that entails. :-(
• Yep, I'm in Oregon. Although for the last month I've been in another time zone. Maybe we can meet in person at the next Seattle WikiMeetup.
• Not enough articles. The problem is that many were written before sources were insisted on, & have not been reworked to bring them into conformity. (An example is Petronius Maximus, which I originally wrote back in 2003, & subsequent revisions have inelegantly added material to -- but have not added sources.) Many start out okay, but get swamped with material from editors who are more interested in other goals than writing useful articles (e.g., POV pushing, advancing fringe ideas, etc.). And sometimes, a newbie editor will write a perfectly good article without knowing that she/he needs to add sources -- it happens. -- llywrch (talk) 07:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Which was my point about the Petronius Maximus article. Before 2004, no articles on Wikipedia had footnotes; we all agreed that providing sources would be a good thing to do, but no one had a workable idea of how to do it. (Most of the problem, IIRC, was that we wanted a complex solution to a simple problem.) Now that the solution exists, one of the major problems is that no one goes back to these older articles that are otherwise reliable & add sources. I'm a little surprised to see this. Maybe it ought to be a WikiProject... -- llywrch (talk) 19:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Commons Ambassador Barnstar
		For your diligent work in getting free images to replace copyrighted ones and getting them over to commons, and your bold efforts to get photographers to release their work into commons-accepted free licenses, I award you this Commons Ambassador Barnstar! Keep up the good work! Jeff Dahl (Talk • contribs) 22:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Psamtik I

Well spotted! When I am in the U.K. tomorrow will be on the lookout for anything in the British Museum or (less likely) the Petrie Museum relating to this pharaoh. Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 02:10, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Just fyi, the British Museum did have something relating to the pharaoh Psamtik I: part of a temple wall featuring a relief of the pharaoh giving offerings to the god Atum. Once I have finished processing some of the images from this afternoon, look for it on my gallery page at Wikimedia Commons here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Captmondo/gallery. There ought to be some other pics from today that you'll find of interest there too -- I'll leave it to you to choose and do some of the linking from the Wikipedia articles.

Cheers from London! Captmondo (talk) 21:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I see you have found a good use for both mine and Neithsabes on this pharoah. The article defiintely seems more "rounded" when there are pictures to accompany it. Nice job! If I get the chance, I will do a copyedit pass on that article, as some of the wording is ocassionally awkward in spots (such as the word "Egypt" appearing three times in one sentence, and "establishing intimate relations with the Greeks" could be amusingly misconstrued. ;-) Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 07:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Another Barnstar!

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For your ceaseless efforts on behalf of articles (and images) relating to the subject of Ancient Egypt. Well deserved! Captmondo (talk) 02:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Meresankh III

Nice start to the article! I found some other sources to expand what you had done. Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 02:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I managed to make some minor additions/changes to the Hetepheres II article. Unfortunately the Tyldesley book devotes only a single paragraph to her, so there was not much more I could add. If I run across anything else in my other books, I will add more. Captmondo (talk) 15:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Temple of Taffeh

Thanks for the heads up re the photo! It's great. I was really surprised there wasnt more info about this particular one, considering how well covered Dendur and Debod are. dm (talk) 12:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Thutmosis I Image

Just saw the picture you added to the Thutmosis I article.

I knew I had taken a picture of that same colossal head, and I thought I had uploaded it already. Turns out I hadn't. So now I have. I'll leave it to you if you want to use the new one instead, which you can see at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ColossalSandstoneHeadOfThutmoseI-BritishMuseum-August19-08.jpg. I didn't take a pic of it face-on since there is a window directly behind it, and I didn't want to shoot into the light. Using flash is supposed to be a no-no in the museum, so am using the ambient lighting available, with a decent-enough exposure to bring out some detail (if you look at it full size, check out the top of the head above the ear, and you will not only see the metal likely once used to lift the head into place but can even see the date someone scratched onto it over a century ago!)

Cheers! Captmondo (talk) 00:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK x5

On 27 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with facts from the articles Temple of Dakka, Temple of Maharraqa, and Wadi es-Sebua, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

On 27 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with facts from the articles Amada, and Temple of Derr, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 23:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

WP to Commons images

Dear Stifle, Can this image Image:P1000860.JPG on WP be deleted? I contacted an Admin at Commons who told me it could be moved to Commons since it was now in the public domain. But, he also asked me to place a more appropriate title as I did here: Image:Adam, Eve and Abel by Carl Johan Bonnesen (1868-1933).jpg I don't think I can slap a db-commons tag on the first image since their files names are totallly different and I have to contact an Admin on WP like you instead. Unless you know the code here for duplicates with different file names on Commons. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

While I'm happy to answer questions, it looks like your question could have been answered and resolved more quickly if you had used my message wizard. It's linked as "Talk" after my name and at the top of my talk page. Why not try it next time?

The correct tags to place are {{nowcommons|Image:Adam, Eve and Abel by Carl Johan Bonnesen (1868-1933).jpg}} and {{db-i8}}. Stifle (talk) 20:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You can alternatively use {{db-i8|Image:Adam, Eve and Abel by Carl Johan Bonnesen (1868-1933).jpg}}. Stifle (talk) 20:26, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Can you kindly tell me how to tag an image file in a bad PDF format or which is a duplicate of another file? I see so many here. That is much appreciated. All I know are the speedy delete tags. Regards, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

{{db-f10}} and {{db-f1}} respectively. JPG-GR (talk) 22:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Hittite Images Identification

Hello, Leoboudv,

The first image you presented, Image:Hattusa2008.jpg, is the southern (lower) postern gate at the base of the great rampart of Yerkapi. It opens to the outside of the city. The Sphinx gate (which you can just make out at the top of your picture) sits directly above it at the top of the rampart, where the tunnel opens into the city. You can still walk through the tunnel today.

The chamber of Suppiluliuma II that you depict is on the northern corner of "Pond 1" in the Upper City. The pond would have served as a water resevoir for the city. (The chamber had to be reconstructed, by the way.) Symbolically, it was an entryway into the underworld. The inscription basically says what a great guy Suppiluliuma was, mentioning various conquests (including Tarhuntassa), city foundations, and sacrifices.

The last image is from Yazilikaya, and is simply the heiroglyphic identification of Tudhaliya (IV). It is situated in Chamber B, at the intersection with Chamber C, right by the pedestal of the now-missing large figure sculpture. The figure in the middle depicts a mountain god (representing a mountain, MONS in Latin. You can recognize him as such by the spikey skirt he wears) standing on the heiroglyphic symbol for the syllable "-tu". MONS-tu = "Tudhaliya". On either side of this figure stand the symbols for the royal title "Labarna", and on either side of that stand the two symbols that make up "Great King" (The curly thing up top is "great", the spikey thing underneath it is "king". Sitting over the whole is a winged sun disk, representing the royal title "My Sun".

Cheers

Publik (talk) 21:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Ancient Egypt Watchlist

Hi - do you use this? And whether or not, could you help me update it? I just added TT71 for instance. Thanks. dougweller (talk) 21:39, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Wishes for ya recovery

I´m worrying about hearing you´re suffering for an heavy illnes. In my name and the names of the admins I wish ya health and a fast recovering. Please get well soon! With best regards; --Weneg (talk) 21:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Lisa Brokop

I thought it was a good picture of Lisa Brokop as far as free images go. I, too, wish more singers articles had images, but as you know, it's not easy to find images that can be used on Wikipedia.

"Break It" is a good song, but my favourite Lisa Brokop song is "How Do I Let Go." Have you heard that one? Eric444 (talk) 11:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Rktect Blocked

Well, it's about time someone blocked him! Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Publik (talk) 21:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I second that! I had been watching him with disgust for some time. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:20, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Tagging duplicates of images on Wikipedia

• How about {{db|duplicate of [[:file:…]]}} ? You could also add a thumbnail of the duplicate image so the deleting admin can see at a glance that it is a duplicate. There probably is a specific tag but just use my suggestion until someone who knows tells you. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 20:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Can you also kindly direct me to the deletion codes page on Wikipedia...so I know how to tag a duplicate or an image file with a bad pdf format for deletion. Thank You, --Leoboudv (talk) 19:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Deleted, deletion codes are at Wikipedia:CSD#Marking_an_article_for_speedy_deletion. Happy tagging! MBisanz ^talk 20:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)