User talk:League Octopus/sandbox - Historic League Tables and Cup Results

Please leave you comments and suggested additions on the essay that I have prepared on the Historic League Tables and Cup Results here. Many thanks. League Octopus (League Octopus 09:46, 16 November 2012 (UTC))

Why so many betting sites?

You might refrain from adding dozens of betting sites, since they all have mostly the same contents. Some of them even go back only 2-3 years. For historical results, the most relevant sites are Soccerway, BetExplorer, Weltfussball and Footballdatabase.eu. This is not to say that something interesting cannot be found outside these four, for example Transfermarkt has Swiss lower league results not available elsewhere, but this is rare.

Note that statto has been mostly superseded by ENEA (since results and dates are free upon registration). This might not be important for leagues, but they had some minor cup fixtures (such as the Full Members Cup for example) wrong.

In particular, I'd advise against using wildstat.ru overmuch. They can't even get the Soviet league dates right (compare with KLISF), or EC results, so I would not trust them with the Georgian or Azeri league in the 20th century.109.173.212.187 (talk) 11:43, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks ever so much for the feedback - it is much appreciated. The essay is very much work in progress and the list of betting sites at the moment is my point of reference. In the final version I might highlight and review the best sites and miniaturise or delete the remainder. In some instances a betting site may lack historic content but may have a lot more material for a particular league. It might then become a useful resource. The reliability of data is a key concern and I thank you for highlighting your concerns above. The big question is am I creating a useful resource? League Octopus (League Octopus 12:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC))

You are certainly creating a useful resource, at least as a rough summary of what is available. My interests run a bit deeper, beyond tables and results, but for many leagues full stats are not available or remain locked in newspapers and books.

As far as reliability is concerned, I can distinguish the following: 1) information that is 99,99% reliable (multiple sites plus newspaper references), 2) information that is probably reliable, but should be verified using printed sources, 3) information that I know or suspect is not reliable, but sources for verification are not available (or are locked behind a paywall).

Additionally, I consider everything after about 2000 reliable (this may vary for different countries), at least with respect to Europe, S. America and some other countries.

Some examples (just the most prominent ones): 1) Spanish Primera Division and Italian Serie A, 2) German Bundesliga and English First Division/Premier League, 3) French Ligue 1/Portuguese Liga Sagres (this category is the broadest). For all of these leagues, I have complete or nearly complete line-ups and player data, but the level of reliability varies widely.

Since Wikipedia is probably not the best forum for discussing issues like this, my Google Mail nickname is wastyland if you want to talk about this further. 109.173.212.187 (talk) 06:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks I will be in touch in due course. League Octopus (League Octopus 09:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC))