User talk:John Cummings/Archive 13
 | This is an archive of past discussions about User:John Cummings. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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December 2021 at Women in Red
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--Innisfree987 (talk) 00:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Hello Mr. C!
I sympathize with your editing at Michael Steinhardt, but I'm certain that Michael Steinhardt wasn't recently convicted of art looting, etc. in New York. He just returned $70 million of art and agreed to never buy any more antiquities! I am investigating this article for "inauthentic editing practices" (add your own favorite term here). I've found a bit on my first pass, but nothing is certain yet. If you want to help, please send me an email. Smallbones(smalltalk) 15:29, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Smallbones, nice to hear from you. I'm sorry if my bad grammar made it sound like this, my understanding is he knowingly bought looted and illegally smuggled artifacts, rather than doing the looting and smuggling himself. I'll leave some references on the article talk page. John Cummings (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: November 2021
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Environmental threats to the Great Barrier Reef
Environmental threats to the Great Barrier Reef has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Chidgk1 (talk) 15:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
AddTaxobox user script
Hey there. I notice you're autopatrolled and create a lot of plant and species articles. You may be interested in my user script AddTaxobox.js, which adds a bunch of taxonomy stuff to articles. Here's some of your articles it found stuff to add. Hope this helps. Happy holidays. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:11, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
January 2022 with Women in Red
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Happy new year !
Nattes à chat (talk) 22:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Don't Look Up edit
Just to say with regard to your recent edit:
I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks. If your rollback is disputed then we can take it up on the talk page. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 23:36, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for January 6
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Flora of Malta, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kali soda. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 05:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Flora of Malta
I see that you have been doing a ton of work on the Flora of Malta. If you ever figure out a way to italicize species names in a column in a table, let me know, I have tried and failed. On another note, I know it may seem like undoing a lot of work, but there really is no need for a column of synonyms. It takes up room, and the readership should not be attached to synonyms or encouraged to keep using them. So if you feel like removing that column, don't hesitate. Abductive (reasoning) 04:35, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: December 2021
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This Month in GLAM: December 2021
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February with Women in Red
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Your help desk question
Did you find the answer to this question? It is probably one that could be answered at WP:VPT.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:26, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Vchimpanzee thanks for asking, I got sort of half an answer. I think I need to rephrase it with more specific questions and show how far I've got so far, so feel free to close it. John Cummings (talk) 11:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Italic title
Hello friend. You'll probably see this on your watchlist, but just in case... if you put {{Speciesbox |genus=Homo |species=sapien}} instead of {{Speciesbox |genus=Homo |species=Homo sapien}}, then speciesbox will automatically make the article title italic for you. So you won't need to add {{Italic title}} anymore. Hope that helps. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 06:48, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- P.S. There is also {{Free-content attribution}} to help with attribution notices. –Novem Linguae (talk) 06:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Novem Linguae thanks very much for your message, really helpful. I'll also try and improve the instructions so others. Yes I'm using that template, if there's anything in the instructions for it that doesn't make sense, let me know, I wrote it several years ago so I'm sure there will be a few gaps Help:Adding open license text to Wikipedia. John Cummings (talk) 10:41, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oh awesome. I wonder if it'd be worth exploring the creation of a template that covers CC0 type licenses that is similar to {{Pd-notice}}. A small, one sentence template that could be included at the end of a ref (e.g.
This article incorporates text from this source, which is licensed CC0.) –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:16, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oh awesome. I wonder if it'd be worth exploring the creation of a template that covers CC0 type licenses that is similar to {{Pd-notice}}. A small, one sentence template that could be included at the end of a ref (e.g.
- Hi Novem Linguae thanks very much for your message, really helpful. I'll also try and improve the instructions so others. Yes I'm using that template, if there's anything in the instructions for it that doesn't make sense, let me know, I wrote it several years ago so I'm sure there will be a few gaps Help:Adding open license text to Wikipedia. John Cummings (talk) 10:41, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
WikiProject Peace?
Feel free to add your name to User:Boud/Draft:WikiProject Peace and do some related editing if you are interested. I noticed that you added a good diagram at peace process in June 2020. Boud (talk) 22:33, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: January 2022
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Species stubs
Thank you for recent creations of stubs on plant species. It is best practice to say where species are native as part of even the most rudimentary stub. Please confer with the members of WP:WikiProject Plants if you have any questions. Abductive (reasoning) 17:25, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Abductive thanks for your message, where is the best place to look up species distribution? Or is it scattered over lots of sites? Is there a guide on the requirements or a how-to for making plant stubs available? John Cummings (talk) 20:17, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
- My bad, I answered your question a few days ago on the WP:Plants talk page but didn't ping you. Abductive (reasoning) 21:25, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Your edits to British Museum article
Hello John Cummings
I've rewritten you recent edits to this article about the museum's Chairman's Advisory Group in order to more accurately reflect the contents of the source article and to maintain a neutral POV. I'm not sure if you are in any way connected with the campaign against BP's sponsorship of the British Museum, but the way your contribution was written might be construed as advocacy. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:51, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Still Wikimedian in residence at UNESCO?
Hi! WP:WPUN (Collaboration section) and Meta:Wikimedian in residence both list you as Wikimedian in residence at UNESCO since 2015. However, your profile indicates that you are no longer the Wikimedian in residence at UNESCO today. Could you kindly update both pages, where appropriate? Thank you. Pilaz (talk) 09:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
March editathons
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:37, 27 February 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
This Month in GLAM: February 2022
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Categories
Hey JC, thanks for all your good work. Could I ask a favor? Could you please check the categories in which you are placing the articles you create? Wikipedia has (relatively) very few categories at the genus level; usually the family is as low as we go. This means that when you put the article in the non-existent genus category, it appears red, and another editor (many, many times that's me) has to go to the article and fix it; if you did not put the article into the non-existent category it would save this work. Also, there are cases where the genus category does exist, but it requires a parenthetical (eg, it is Category:Veronica (plant), not Category:Veronica) Anything you can do to avoid bad cats in the articles would be very much appreciated. Let me know if you need any help, and thank in advance, UnitedStatesian (talk) 19:47, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi UnitedStatesian I'm very sorry I've done this wrong 300 times, I assumed that genus was the correct level for categories and hadn't seen any instructions anywhere. Is there some documentation on this so I can see if there's any other rules I've missed? Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 16:12, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, there is no hard-and-fast rule, only this: check the categories after creating the page, and if any do not exist, replace that category with a higher-level one. Best, UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks very much UnitedStatesian, that's helpful advice, thanks very much. John Cummings (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, there is no hard-and-fast rule, only this: check the categories after creating the page, and if any do not exist, replace that category with a higher-level one. Best, UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi UnitedStatesian I'm very sorry I've done this wrong 300 times, I assumed that genus was the correct level for categories and hadn't seen any instructions anywhere. Is there some documentation on this so I can see if there's any other rules I've missed? Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 16:12, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
April Editathons from Women in Red
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:45, 22 March 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Medicagos out of sync
Medicago rigidula needs content about M. rigidula. It cites the correct page on MaltaWildPlants, but the content is otherwise about Medicago monspeliaca. And the content at M. monspeliaca pertains to Medicago lupulina (which has a well developed page about the titular species. So, M. monspeliaca needs to have the content copied from M. rigidula and M. rigidula needs to have content written. Plantdrew (talk) 20:30, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Plantdrew thanks very much for spotting my mistake, I've corrected it. John Cummings (talk) 14:09, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Wikimedian in residence at UNESCO, part 2
Hello,
I didn't get a reply on this. Could you kindly provide an update? Thank you. Pilaz (talk) 17:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Substubs
I hope that you plan to go back and add information such as range to the many plant stubs you are creating. Typically when a user goes on a stub creation spree the stubs languish forever, as nobody is willing to clean them up. Abductive (reasoning) 19:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Abductive yes I plan on adding range information when its available e.g from Plants of the World Online. What do you mean by clean the up? Is there something wrong with them? Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 22:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Good to hear. I'll work on a couple of them soon as examples. Abductive (reasoning) 22:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Abductive is there a list of things that are required in a plant stub available? John Cummings (talk) 08:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- I'm working on one right now. Abductive (reasoning) 08:56, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- Okay, I've done Trisetaria aurea. A basic stub uses PoWO for all information about family, authorities, synonyms, year of publication, and distribution. Species names are always italicized, even within the refs. To fill in the categories use WP:PLANTS/WGSRPD. In the case of Trisetaria aurea, I also linked the authorities to their articles, added a large number of synonyms in a nice collapsible list, decapitalized and bolded the common name, listed the geographic locations from west to east and occasionally from north to south, removed the source boilerplate message since all that was used from eol was the common name, added the WGSRPD categories, and added a year described category. On the talk page I assessed it as stub, low. I added the Malta information even though it is not in the sources, generally it is considered covered by Category:Flora of Sicily. Abductive (reasoning) 09:21, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Abductive is there a list of things that are required in a plant stub available? John Cummings (talk) 08:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- Good to hear. I'll work on a couple of them soon as examples. Abductive (reasoning) 22:31, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Abductive yes I plan on adding range information when its available e.g from Plants of the World Online. What do you mean by clean the up? Is there something wrong with them? Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 22:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi Abductive, thanks very much for the example and explanation, is this written down anywhere else? Is there a 'how to write a good stub article' page somewhere I've missed? If not I will think about creating one. John Cummings (talk) 15:42, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
- I tried to get the other editors at WP:PLANTS to reach a consensus on what a basic stub for a flowering plant should look like, but they never got there. I think that the sticking point was the handling of the formatting of the list of synonyms. I wanted to mandate the Collapsible list template for more than 5 synonyms, and I'm not sure that the others liked that. As for examples, use any of my recent creations, which follow what consensus there is, except my stubs always add a factoid from the scientific literature.
- What there is complete unanimity on is the following:
- Plants of the World Online is the only database used for the validity of the species, its family, authorities, synonyms, year of publication, and distribution. You may have noticed I just redirected your stubs Polycarpon diphyllum, Salicornia appressa, Phillyrea media, Ophrys passionis and Ophrys melitensis. PoWO says they were synonyms, so they are synonyms.
- Users are expected to make a cursory search of the Commons for an image. If you don't make the search, expect that nobody else will ever do it, as they will assume that the stub creator will have already looked there.
- There should be a complete list of synonyms. Older stubs omit the synonyms, but a partial list is not acceptable. Formatting of the list is up to individual editor.
- Species names are always italicized, even within the refs. Even if the refs don't italicize.
- The common name(s) are bolded, and not capitalized unless there is a proper noun. If English common names cannot easily be found, it is okay to omit them. Do not use non-English common names unless they appear in multiple reliable English-language sources.
- The authorities must appear in the Speciesbox, using their botanical abbreviations. Piping their abbreviation to their article is nice, but not an absolute requirement.
- Stubs must at least hint at the distribution in the lead, and not single out one location. For example, one might say, "native to the Himalayas", and not go into listing all the countries, but it is not acceptable to be too narrow ("native to Nepal" when there are other countries), or too broad ("native to the Indian Subcontinent" or "native to Asia").
- The distribution categories are taken from WP:PLANTS/WGSRPD, which has a usage section. Older stubs omit the distribution categories, but a partial set is not acceptable.
- Hybrid species articles, such as Passiflora x violaceae need to use the ×, not an x, and list the parent species. If you can't find the parent species, don't bother creating the stub, as these hybrids are very low priority and may not be real taxa. They might be failing WP:V, in other words.
- Descriptions are a requirement to get an article to Start-class, not for stubs. The descriptions used in EoL are not remotely correct botanical descriptions, so they are basically useless.
- Speaking of EoL, it has a lot of entries that should not be made into stubs. An example is your Vulpia ciliata, about which EoL says "Unresolved name [Vulpia] ciliata". PoWO says it is a synonym of two different valid species, Festuca ambigua and Festuca myuros. Your stub fails to list the authors (presumably because they are not in the EoL entry), so I cannot even figure out where to move or redirect it, as they both are probably found on Malta.
- The taxonbar is required. If there is no Wikidata entry, it is best to not create a stub, as there is probably something very wrong.
- Categories such as Category:Ornamental plants and Category:Plants described in 1963 are nice, but not an absolute requirement. I add Category:Taxa named by Carl Linnaeus (because there are too many of them even for a list article) but never any other taxa-by-author categories as they are not well-liked by editors at WP:PLANTS. The zoology editors are big fans of the taxa-by-author categories. Similarly, categories such as Category:Grasses of Punjab are not liked by WP:PLANTS regulars.
- A stub tag is expected, but is not an absolute requirement. I have argued for the elimination of stubs tags across all of Wikipedia, and got quite a lot of support. Even so, I always add them to my stubs.
- I will endeavor to continue to improve your stubs. For most users mass-creating stubs I have not done so. For example, User:Starzoner created thousands of stubs, and ignored remonstrations on his talk page to do a better job. Later all his stubs were deleted under WP:G5. So editors are loath to fix mass-created stubs because they expect to be wasting their time. But you seem to be trying to improve Wikipedia. Let me know if you have any questions. Abductive (reasoning) 00:33, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Abductive, thanks very much for the explanation, a couple of follow up questions.
- You say that if there isn't a Wikidata item then something has gone wrong, do you know what the state is of importing species data into Wikidata? Has someone imported POWO species into Wikidata? I found the property P5037, but not sure what the state of uploading the data is? Do you know who might be importing/imported it?
- Can you point to where you almost reached consensus on formatting and information for plant stubs? I'd be very interested to read it and write some draft instructions based on this info and that discussion.
- You say 'The descriptions used in EoL are not remotely correct botanical descriptions', is it that they don't include the right kind of information or its just formatted in a different way? I can't find a recent stub you've written that includes this kind of info.
- Thanks again
- John Cummings (talk) 12:41, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Wikidata allows listings from just about any database of species, and is highly inclusive. No species names are removed for errors, lack of validity, or pretty much anything. This means that if a name does not appear on Wikidata, it is either brand new, or never was at all.
- I looked around for where the discussions took place. I can't seem to find them. In any case, there was little appetite for making a sample stub, or any instructions. The general modus operandi is what is happening right now; a user begins to create stubs, editors make corrections, and if the stub creator persists, remonstrating on talk pages begin. It seems that the more experienced WP:PLANTS editors despair at trying, so why make a sample stub/instructions if nobody listens? There are 351,002 valid species listed on PoWO. There are about 80,000 articles on species on Wikipedia. Any attempts to "fix" this "problem" run into the fact that the vast majority of species barely have more than a name, and therefore the mass-produced stubs are non-encyclopedic database entries that readers ignore. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should not strive for completeness.
- An example where I went to the trouble of paraphrasing the species description is Iberis amara. Species descriptions are highly technical and their purpose is to list, in a structured format, exactly what differentiates that species from similar ones. One has to use the terms listed in Glossary of botanical terms, Glossary of leaf morphology, and Glossary of plant morphology correctly. Abductive (reasoning) 15:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Abductive, thanks very much for the explanation, a couple of follow up questions.
- Thanks Abductive, very helpful. Its a real shame that so many issues are caused by not having instructions and examples, I'll think about how to work on this, it seems like it would save a lot of people a lot of time and energy. Does POWO use this structure for their descriptions? Would descriptions from POWO if the licenses allowed fit with the structure of Wikipedia? John Cummings (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- I have added a hint to the project's Taxon template page. I would like to add an example (or examples) stub somewhere towards the top of that page, but can't figure out where or how to fit it in. Abductive (reasoning) 17:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- I found where I was trying to get consensus on a basic stub. It is at User:Plantdrew/Plant stub checklist, but was never finished or even critiqued by the other members of the project. Let me know what you think. Abductive (reasoning) 06:51, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
- I have added a hint to the project's Taxon template page. I would like to add an example (or examples) stub somewhere towards the top of that page, but can't figure out where or how to fit it in. Abductive (reasoning) 17:48, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Abductive, very helpful. Its a real shame that so many issues are caused by not having instructions and examples, I'll think about how to work on this, it seems like it would save a lot of people a lot of time and energy. Does POWO use this structure for their descriptions? Would descriptions from POWO if the licenses allowed fit with the structure of Wikipedia? John Cummings (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
This Month in GLAM: March 2022
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May Women in Red events
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:53, 30 April 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
This Month in GLAM: April 2022
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June events from Women in Red
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 09:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging