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Hushang

Hi @HistoryofIran, hope all is well with you. I recently made some changes to the page Hushang. I wonder if there are any suggestions you can make for improvement. I noticed that a lot of the articles on figures from Iranian mythology are very "Shahnameh-centric" and haven't been touched for years, so there's a lot of room for improvement there. Revolution Saga (talk) 20:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Revolution Saga, thank you and likewise. Yep, I noticed that as well. Unfortunately I can't think of any WP:RS right now, I'm not well versed in Iranian mythology and haven't dipped my feet in the topic for years. Perhaps @DeCausa: can be of help? Seeing as they have made the excellent Pishdadian dynasty. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words - though I'm not sure I'll be much help! I think the bottom line is that the Shahnameh versions of these figures are easily accessible, clearly delineated and well written about. To an extent that's true also of the Tabari (and related) versions. But trying to track back to the Middle Persian texts and the Avesta and match like for like is quite difficult (at least I found it so). I found the Encyclopædia Iranica articles often quite disappointing in this regard. Often they weren't as clear as they could be about which version of a figure they were talking about at any particular point. To an extent, that's inherent because the references in the Avesta and, often, in the Pahlavi texts are quite obscure - although that may be my lack of understanding speaking. I would certainly say that they Pahlavi and Avestan descriptions are the weakest part of the Pishdadian dynasty article that would benefit from someone else taking a look at. Generally, the whole suite of articles on Persian mythology figures is in poor shape and I'd love to do something about it but it seems such a huge task! DeCausa (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

"Battle of Koyulhisar (1461) "

From what little I could find, it[Koyulhisar] appears to have been 3 sieges.


It may be better to move Battle of Koyulhisar (1461) to a draft under the name: Siege of Koyulhisar (1461). Thoughts? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Kansas Bear. That sounds like a good alternative that I wouldn't mind either, I'll post it on the thread. HistoryofIran (talk) 12:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

A little help please

Hi. I'm goting to complete the article of Zayn al-Din Taybadi and I can't find any English sources. As you seem to have access to the EI I need your help if you could send me some pdfs on this subject. He was one of the main mystics of the 14th century whose life and deeds has not been dealt with very much. Thanks in advance. Bbadree (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Bbadree. Zayn al-Din Taybadi appears in these two prominent works [1] [2]. Does he appear in EI too? If so, can you link it? I couldn't find it. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Rabia was an Arab woman

Rabia was an Arab woman, I don't know why there is a claim that she was from a non-Arab descent. She was called bint Ka'b aka: the daughter of Ka'b, which is, كعب, an Arab name. She was called Zain Al-Arab, which indicates her Arab lineage. Ibnismail2222 (talk) 15:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Please read the sourced Background section as well as WP:OR and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

One article

Hello bro, I wanted to say that if you can, take a look at Bogazicili edits in the turkic peoples article, he has done a lot of vandalism, even removing the maps that helps the lot of readers in the article!

Even if you have more time better check all recently works of this person Twg7s7h (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Twg7s7h. Sorry, but I need more context here, what is going on? And would it not be better to take it up with the user in the talk page of the article? HistoryofIran (talk) 15:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Sorry no he would not even answer, i think you didn't understand my speech I mean check his edits on turkic peoples the edit or i mean his changes in that article his name is Bogazicili i can't do that because the article is lock
I know he done lot of vandalism Twg7s7h (talk) 18:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Emerging issues involving brand new Indian editors on articles about wars.

Hello @HistoryofIran, Recently, a second phase of War Articles has been initiated by our new Indian users. Could you please take a look at them, specifically including topics such as the Shunga-Greek War, Gupta conquests of Bengal, and Mauryan Khotan Colonization.

The most notable issue I've encountered, which is not a brand new article, is an ongoing edit war with an Indian user. It revolves around the conflict between the Iranic Scythians, also known as Sakas, and the Satavahanas, in which the Sakas/Scythians emerged victorious. However, the Indian user keeps reverting my edits repeatedly. The article in question is titled "Saka-Satavahana Wars." DeepstoneV (talk) 09:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Sorry, but that's a lot of topics and issues. I might take a look, can't promise anything though. Worst case scenario, I would recommend using WP:ANI. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello, examine the editing methods of User:Aryan330, User:Melechha, and Johanrojjashi. There is a commonality among them, and it's evident that Johanrojjashi is not a newcomer. I am limiting the comment as anything we say nowadays are getting distorted, even the old comments. Imperial[AFCND] 18:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Can you please show some diffs that demonstrate that? And no need to limit yourself, don't let them get to you - let them try to distort it, they're just shooting themselves in the foot, as everyone can see the diffs for themselves. Anyways, I have a pretty good smoking gun for the afromentioned meatpuppetry activities, so everything should be good soon, just need an admin to see it. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Melechha created a wikitable in "Ahom-Mughal conflicts,"[3] and Jonharojjashi promptly modified it[4] .
2. Aryan and Melechha (Editor Pandit is his socked acc) engaged in edit warring for improving a wikitable in "Maratha–Portuguese War (1683–1684),[5]" with Jonharojjashi making the similar edits shortly after in favour of them [6] [7].
3. Similar occurrences were observed in "Luso–Maratha War (1729–1732)," where Melechha created a wikitable[8], and Jonharojjashi either restored or modified it[9]. Additionally, when Melechha moved the page to a different title[10], Jonharojjashi followed suit[11]. Notably, this marked Jonharojjashi's third edit on the article.
4. The pattern repeated in the "Dogra–Tibetan War," with Melechha creating a wikitable[12] and Jonharojjashi subsequently editing it. This marked as the fourth article Jonharojjashi edited.[13].
5. Daayush (a confirmed sock), Jonharojjashi, and an IP user collaborated on editing "Kanishka" for a common purpose.[14] [15]
6. Jonharojjashi and Msangharak (a sock of Melechha) collaborated on editing "Kanishka's war with Parthia." [16].
7. Indo12122 (a confirmed sock user) and Jonharojjashi engaged in reverting each other's edits on "Muslim conquests in the Indian subcontinent."
I noticed several other accounts during the revision checks, some of which were added in earlier SPI checks. But, I didn't include them as they are not significant leads. Imperial[AFCND] 04:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks ImperialAficionado! HistoryofIran (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Don't want this auto-archived just yet, commenting for the section to stay. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Ditto. The big report is going to take maybe even hours, but it will be worth. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Pleased to hear that. Please don't hesitate to ask if you need any help. Best regards. Imperial[AFCND] 15:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Imperial, I appreciate it. I think I have more than enough evidence (but wouldn't say no to even more), just need to assemble it all together in a reader friendly way as much as possible. I'll see if I can make time for it in the upcoming days. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Really sorry, so much stuff happening right now, which ends up making me too exhausted to do these type of extensive reports. I assure you I will do this month, I've found even more similar patterns. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:43, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Please take your time, as this task is undoubtedly enormous. I am also gathering many leads. Kindly leave a message when it's ready. Best regards. Imperial[AFCND] 21:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
@ImperialAficionado: Better late than never [17]. If you have more proof, it would be greatly appreciated if you could post it there. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
The report is excellent. You could also consider including a comment about the large community on Instagram, in addition to Discord servers. This information was obtained from a comment by the User:Shakib ul hassan [18]. Even though WP:OUTING, this proves that the recruiting could never end as thousands of people are behind this. I'm currently on a break, but I'll do my best to recall some of the earlier evidence I had. Best regards. Imperial[AFCND] 03:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Al-Biruni

Hello, colleague. Why did Al-Biruni bacome Uzbek? With respect. Smpad (talk) 12:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me. Looks like someone is masquerading as an Iranian, likely a sock. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Ah, this is probably the sock of the LTA Beyoglou. Got nothing better to do than larp once again it seems. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:55, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Help needed at Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz, re addition of Persian name and concerns of circular sourcing

Your input would be appreciated at Talk:Abu Lu'lu'a Firuz#Sources for the name Piruz Nahavandi. Summaries of the dispute and discussion thread may be found here. Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 15:24, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Apaugasma. Weird, the article wasn't part of my watchlist anymore. I have a lot of balls in the air atm, I might join the discussion. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Orontes I

The article Orontes I you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Orontes I and Talk:Orontes I/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Relativity -- Relativity (talk) 00:03, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Scythian did not left any written sources

Herodotus write some of the scytian words and names but they are not translatable enough to any iranic language. Heredotus also writes that scythians and persian could not understand each other even they are only seperated few hundreds before according to our hypothesis. Their gods name completly different than other indu-european gods. For example even indian gods names have similarities with slavic and hellenic god. But scythian gods are not. Kaan C3Iik (talk) 08:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on WP:RS, not your personal intrepetation of a primary source (WP:PRIMARY). HistoryofIran (talk) 12:04, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, what primary source is have a proof that they are speaking iranic language ? All the sources that claiming scytians speaking iranic language are based on opinion. None of them directing a writing left from scytians. Kaan C3Iik (talk) 12:57, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Whether thats true or not, your intrepetation is still irrelevant, you are not a historian. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
So you are sayin that I can edit it via showing Heredotus Histories as a source because he is historian or any other historian right ? Kaan C3Iik (talk) 13:14, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
No, please re-read everything I said and read the links I posted. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
And especially this one WP:PSTS. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:37, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

New Sabuktigin coin image

Hey @HistoryofIran, would you mind adding a tag for the original work for Coin_of_the_Ghaznavid_amir_Sabuktigin,_citing_the_Samanid_amir_Nuh_II_as_his_overlord._Date_unknown,_minted_at_Ghazna.jpg? The FAC reviewer said it needs one and I'm kind of dull regarding the tags in the commons. Amir Ghandi (talk) 18:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Never mind, I had misunderstood what they meant, added it myself. Cheers! Amir Ghandi (talk) 18:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:14th-century Bavandid rulers has been nominated for renaming

Category:14th-century Bavandid rulers has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:13th-century Bavandid rulers has been nominated for renaming

Category:13th-century Bavandid rulers has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:14th-century Baduspanid rulers has been nominated for splitting

Category:14th-century Baduspanid rulers has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:13th-century Baduspanid rulers has been nominated for splitting

Category:13th-century Baduspanid rulers has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Recent additions to the article about Samudragupta

Hello HistoryofIran, hope you are doing well. I've recently just noticed new additions to the article about Samudragupta talking about his "conflict with the Sasanian Empire", first of all, the entire section only cites one source from a publisher called "Pen and Sword" and the source as a whole is rather dubious. The entire section cites page 322 of the source as a reference for Samudragupta's alleged conflict with the Sasanians, however, the author themself has stated that they "would suggest" Shapur II's conflict was with the Sasanians without any factual backing (which is a huge red flag). I did not want to hear it just yet and was looking forward to your opinion. Cheers! Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 21:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to me. The user who added it and their Discord group [19] is notorious for misusing sources. Pretty source the source is also not WP:RS, or at the very least low quality, as I recall it got removed from several Sasanian-Roman related articles. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Yup, not WP:RS [20] HistoryofIran (talk) 22:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 11:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi

The article Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi and Talk:Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi

The article Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi for comments about the article, and Talk:Mirza Mohammad-Ali Khan Shirazi/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Steelkamp -- Steelkamp (talk) 03:41, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Mughal Empire has an RfC

Mughal Empire has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 02:13, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Flemmish Nietzsche, but I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to take part. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Battle of Jaxartes

Could you provide any contemporary source where this is a macedonian victory? HiddenRealHistory19 (talk) 02:48, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

"Wikipedia is based on WP:RS, not your personal intrepetation of a primary source"

I see you used the same tactic on another person? And when he questions you furhter asking for the primary source youre talking about you simply answer; "youre not a historian". Isnt that the point of Wikipedia where everybody can edit as long as its proven/properly sourced? Weird attitude you have brother. Also there was no primary source to begin with? And its not his "personal interpretations" there is littlery no source there at all!! HiddenRealHistory19 (talk) 03:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

And what person did I use my “tactic” against? You do realize that “tactic” and “weird attitude” is called following the rules of this website? And if you dont want to do that, then you should perhaps reflect if this site is the right place for you. Please read WP:RS, WP:SYNTH, WP:CITE, WP:VER, WP:PST and WP:SCHOLARSHIP. HistoryofIran (talk) 03:43, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
My god and he does it again... youre just like a white police officer with a black man in the 50s of Usa! 😝🤣. And you know very well who you used this tactic against. Some dude called "Kaan C3lik". Lets see your guys's conversation. Shall we? ;)
(Kaan C3lik makes statement)
Historyofiran:
Kaan C3lik answers: Yeah, what primary source is have a proof that they are speaking iranic language ? All the sources that claiming scytians speaking iranic language are based on opinion. None of them directing a writing left from scytians. (Again making statement and asking for the primary source youre talking about)
You: "Whether thats true or not, your intrepetation is still irrelevant, you are not a historian."
..... I have no words for this?🤣
"Wether that's true or not", well until you provide evidence you will never know its not true!! There is no proof out there that arent based on opinions. Isnt wikipedia supposed to take sourced which are objective???? And its not even "his intreperarion". He litterly just makes a statement and asked a question afterwards. You only answer with the law card, weird behavior this is!😝 HiddenRealHistory19 (talk) 17:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Forgot to add at the start:
Historyofiran: " HiddenRealHistory19 (talk) 17:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
" HiddenRealHistory19 (talk) 17:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
What a strange response. Keep your thoughts about me to yourself (WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:NPA). I communicate with users almost everyday, do you expect me to remember this particularly case? Also, we dont need your cherrypicked intreperation of the discussion, just link the discussion so everyone can see the comments fully. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

I need your help

Hi, I created a wiki page about Dasini tribe. But I don't know how to edit page information. Will you please help me and edit it :). And please link it to Kurdish and Arabic Wikipedia if you do so. Thanks. Jackhanma69 (talk) 00:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Sorry, but I don't know anything about this tribe, so I can't be of help. I have linked the article to its articles in other Wikis. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:02, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
i really appreciate it for linking it. Once again thanks. Jackhanma69 (talk) 02:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Indian History

Hello HistoryofIran, as usual, there's an issue with Indian history. You might have encountered those modern unreliable sources claiming that the Guptas annexed the Oxus Valley and Balkh, among other claims involving the Huns and others. Although you've addressed these inaccuracies in the articles, the information is still present in the short description category of the Gupta Empire page. Could you please take a look and also review the Talk section of that page? DeepstoneV (talk) 12:28, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@DeepstoneV: Another brand new user making the same disruptive war-related edits and same dishonest arguments, no doubt another member of the Discord [21]. And they are citing Kalidasa, who is not WP:RS per WP:AGEMATTERS, WP:PST and WP:SCHOLARSHIP HistoryofIran (talk) 12:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Recently, I have been targeted by some brand new accounts on Wikidia who are engaged in the sockpuppetry and meatpuppetry and have Multiple Insta and Dicord groups for these purposes. Their main purpose is to create propagated and fictional victories of Indian kingdoms, as you know. One of them is Based Kashmiri who made a fictional battle article about the Pala-Tibetan war and uploaded a edit suddenly to his Instagram page while it was still in draft form. Altho the article selected for deletion by ImperialAficionado.
To understand the mentality of these people, I recommend you watch these videos.[1][2] DeepstoneV (talk) 11:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Erhm, I appreciate the info, but you're not allowed to post those links per WP:OUTING, so I removed them for your own sake. Can you go into more detail regarding these activities? After all, you probably know of my ANI report regarding meatpuppetry in India-related articles [22]. Feel free to post your evidence there, would be much appreciated. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:33, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Another meatpuppet or sockpuppet account, Theophilusbisio, has joined Wikipedia with the same motive as those of SudSahab, Malik Al Hind etc DeepstoneV (talk) 14:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello, HistoryofIran. I am DeepstoneV. I made this account to leave you one last message and to revert some edits. I was the sock master, but my intentions were only to make Indian Wikipedia professional, prevent the fantasies these bigots create, and ban them. I often clashed with them, banned many, and you can still see my impact. Based Kashmiri has nominated every article I created for deletion and spends all his time reverting my edits. I guarantee you that these individuals are also sockpuppets and meatpuppets, and these bigots will mess up and ruin Wikipedia far more.
Based Kashmiri reverted my constructive edits at Campaigns of Nader Shah and selected it for deletion.
Best of luck to you, brother, whenever you face them. I am leaving Wikipedia forever now. Goodbye. Patience54 (talk) 13:15, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Pajert Rashad III (2023-01-09). How Indians spread historical propaganda online. Retrieved 2024-05-16 – via YouTube.
  2. ^ Pajert Rashad III (2021-11-02). The Indian Nationalist Mentality explained. Retrieved 2024-05-16 – via YouTube.

Category:Government of the Timurid Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Government of the Timurid Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. NLeeuw (talk) 18:55, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Government of the Ghaznavid Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Government of the Ghaznavid Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. NLeeuw (talk) 18:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Government of the Aq Qoyunlu has been nominated for merging

Category:Government of the Aq Qoyunlu has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. NLeeuw (talk) 18:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

ottoman empire

you deleted, historical sources about the indian sufis who went to ottoman empire and established sufi lodges there? you against their descendntas? Princess Adventure (talk) 22:36, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, my life is dedicated to being against them and certainly not because those "historical sources" are random websites which are not WP:RS - something which I mentioned in my edit summary, which you didn't bother reading, instead resorting to accusations here and there [23]. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Orontes I

The article Orontes I you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Orontes I for comments about the article, and Talk:Orontes I/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Relativity -- Relativity (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Congrats!

I saw that you got Orontes I to GA status! Very nicely done! Good job! --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much Kansas Bear! About time I got that article to GA. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

An inquiry about Zazas and the rest of West Iranics

Hello, we are researching the origins of certain West Iranic ethnic groups and are interested in Zaza people specifically. Unfortunately, there is a lot of politicization of the information available online about ethnic groups and Zaza people get their fair share of misinformation and are pushed into certain politically created umbrella terms. I am very inspired by your work and the research you make. I was wondering if you could provide us sources about West Iranic ethnic groups and Zazas specifically in this regard. Especially with how many surrounding nationalist groups spread misinformation about our ethnicity, we thought it would help immensely to cooperate for the sake of objective history writing. Martinbreu.89 (talk) 00:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Martinbreu.89. Thanks for the kind words, but I unfortunately don't know much about the Zazas. This section [24] has plenty of sources, perhaps it can be of use? HistoryofIran (talk) 01:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Maybe you have further sources on how the name “Kurd” was given to any other nomadic group with a similar lifestyle? Martinbreu.89 (talk) 12:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
I do, but please be mindful of WP:SYNTH when reading these;
"Minorsky noted that the ethnonym "kurd" did not have a generally accepted etymology and suggested it was a generic term for "nomad", pointing to Strabo's inclusion of the Cyrtians alongside other "migrant" and "predatory" tribes, all of "the same character", which Minorsky took to mean that they all had a nomadic life style." " - p. 112, Potts, Daniel T. (2014). Nomadism in Iran: From Antiquity to the Modern Era. London and New York: Oxford University Press.
"It should be remembered that “Kurd” in the sources of the 4th-5th/10th-11th centuries refers to all the transhumants of the Zagros region including the Lors." - Ch. Bürgel and R. Mottahedeh, ʿAŻOD-AL-DAWLA, ABŪ ŠOJĀʾ FANNĀ ḴOSROW, Iranica
"As is well-known, the term Kurd had a rather indiscriminate use in the early mediaeval Arabo-Persian historiography and literature, with an explicit social connotation, meaning “nomad, tent-dweller, shepherd” (Minorsky 1931: 294; idem 1940: 144-145; idem 1943: 75; Izady 1986: 16; Asatrian 2001: 47ff.), as well as “robber, highwayman, oppressor of the weak and treacherer” (Driver 1922b: 498ff)." - p. 79, Asatrian, Garnik (2009). "Prolegomena to the Study of the Kurds". Iran and the Caucasus. 13
"Most conclusive of all is the fact that Kurd in the older Persian or Arab sense meant simply nomad with no particular ethnic connotations. In this case, Ardavan V's letter becomes more insulting, since in effect he is calling Ardashir an ignorant nomad" - p. 48, J. Limbert. (1968). The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran. Iranian Studies
"In medieval Arabic sources, the term kurd (plural akrād) denotes Iranian nomads, or nomads who were neither Arab nor Turkic, and is applied to people well outside the current region of Kurdistan. The Kurds as we now know them are made up almost certainly of a variety of different peoples, among whom Iranian tribesmen have been predominant." - p. 66, Manz, B. (2021). The Rise of New Peoples and Dynasties. In Nomads in the Middle East (Themes in Islamic History, pp. 55-80). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
"Then follows the description of Ardašīr’s triumph over Ardawān in the battle of Hormuzagān (see HORMOZDGĀN) and his victorious campaign against the Kurds (a term that in pre-Islamic times designated the various nomadic lineages, rather than a specific ethnicity)." - C. G. CERETI, Iranica
"Tribes always have been a feature of Persian history, but the sources are extremely scant in reference to them since they did not 'make' history. The general designation 'Kurd' is found in many Arabic sources, as well as in Pahlavi book on the deeds of Ardashir the first Sassanian ruler, for all nomads no matter whether they were linguistically connected to the Kurds of today or not. The population of Luristan, for example, was considered to be Kurdish, as were tribes in Kuhistan and Baluchis in Kirman" - p. 111, Richard Frye, The Golden age of Persia, Phoneix Press, 1975. Second Impression December 2003.
"We thus find that about the period of the Arab conquest a single ethnic term Kurd (plur. Akrād ) was beginning to be applied to an amalgamation of Iranian or iranicised tribes. Among the latter, some were autochthonous (the Ḳardū; the Tmorik̲h̲/Ṭamurāyē in the district of which Alḳī = Elk was the capital; the Χοθᾱίται [= al-K̲h̲uwayt̲h̲iyya] in the canton of K̲h̲oyt of Sāsūn, the Orṭāyē [= al-Arṭān] in the bend of the Euphrates); some were Semites (cf. the popular genealogies of the Kurd tribes) and some probably Armenian (it is said that the Mamakān tribe is of Mamikonian origin)." - Kurds, Kurdistān, Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, Bois, Th., Minorsky, V. and MacKenzie, D.N. HistoryofIran (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for these great sources.
Could you possibly manage zazaic contributions for us? They are under enormous pressure from Kurdish nationalists who are trying to assimilate Zazas and their language. Accordingly, articles about Zaza personalities and the people are relegated by these nationalists. This would be a great help for a people whose language is threatened with extinction. Martinbreu.89 (talk) 17:40, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, but I can’t help. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
That's a shame, you would be doing us a great favor. Thanks anyway Martinbreu.89 (talk) 19:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Sasanian Kadagistan

Hey my bro how are you doing

It seems i found a source that says the Kadagistan as a sasanian provience was conquered by turkic khaganate between 570 to 581 after that the hephthalites revolted and in 589 it was reconquered by bahram chobin for short period

source: The Eastern Frontier: Limits of Empire in Late Antique and Early Medieval Central Asia Bloomsbury Publishing, p. 360 the Sasanians controlled the land to the north up to the Kuban valley. Thus the Türks soon reverted to military force. In 569–570 they launched a great military expedition against Sasanian Iran in which they conquered the territory of the former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to Iran in the form of vassal kingdoms and principalities. (The Sasanians were powerless to resist because they were also engaged in war against Byzantium.) Although there is no source that gives the details of the war waged by the Türks against Iran in 569–570, it is clear from the phrase Turkun wa Kabulu (The Türks and [the people of] Kabul), in a poem written between 575 and 580 by the Arab poetal-cAsha, that the Türk army was operating in the Kabul–Gandhara area in 570.3 3: Harmatta, 1962, p. 133, note 5

(however in wiki the case is different like: When Khosrow I died in 579, the Hephthalites of Tokharistan and Khotan took advantage of the situation to rebel against the Sasanians, but their efforts were obliterated by the Turks.)

I just want to know is it true? then edit the Kadagistan article. And if it's not then tell me why and better do a necessary work after that Twg7s7h (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello Twg7s7h, I'm doing good, hope the same goes for you.
source: The Eastern Frontier: Limits of Empire in Late Antique and Early Medieval Central Asia Bloomsbury Publishing, p. 360 the Sasanians controlled the land to the north up to the Kuban valley. Thus the Türks soon reverted to military force. In 569–570 they launched a great military expedition against Sasanian Iran in which they conquered the territory of the former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to Iran in the form of vassal kingdoms and principalities. (The Sasanians were powerless to resist because they were also engaged in war against Byzantium.) Although there is no source that gives the details of the war waged by the Türks against Iran in 569–570, it is clear from the phrase Turkun wa Kabulu (The Türks and [the people of] Kabul), in a poem written between 575 and 580 by the Arab poetal-cAsha, that the Türk army was operating in the Kabul–Gandhara area in 570.3 3: Harmatta, 1962, p. 133, note 5
Sorry what? Kadagistan is in Bactria, not the Kabul–Gandhara area. I don't what areas the author considers the Hephthalite kingdom to be, missing some context. It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure Rezakhani is basing his info on newly found texts/coins in Bactria.
however in wiki the case is different like: When Khosrow I died in 579, the Hephthalites of Tokharistan and Khotan took advantage of the situation to rebel against the Sasanians, but their efforts were obliterated by the Turks.
I also don't know where you're quoting this from, it's not in Kadagistan.
I just want to know is it true? then edit the Kadagistan article. And if it's not then tell me why and better do a necessary work after that
Not sure I understand this? I have my own life and interests to tend to as well. Even if another source is discovered, that doesn't mean I just immediately start editing, that would be incredibly fatiguing. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Wow really great thanks
And you know what
I was in discuss and edit war on this map
Hope you can do something against that person and map
(If the turkic khghanate never annexe the bactria region on 570 which is i never heard that before like you i think) Twg7s7h (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
I think the Rezakhani mean was that turks annexe bactria (the Hephthalites) and turn into kabul-Gandhara Twg7s7h (talk) 23:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
So this is what it's about? Sorry I can't help. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
lol
Ok
But just can you give me the sources about bactria under sasanians before khosrow ii?
Cause you don't accepte that 570 Twg7s7h (talk) 23:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Here's Rezakhani [25]. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:47, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Thx a lot again you put your own time
just 2 think
Did you have time for sasanian evoulational map? That was a great idea i told you before
I think you didn't check Bogazicili edits in turkic people he removes some maps in history part
And if you open history part
The head of its is still big empty Twg7s7h (talk) 23:53, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
A map that shows how the borders of the Sasanian Empire changed throughout history? That is on the to do list, but it's in the last place if I'm going to be honest, I don't really have the biggest interest in pre-Islamic stuff right now. And as for Turkic peoples article, I'm stilling missing context on what the issue is, and I think it's better if you take it to Talk:Turkic peoples. Please also be aware of WP:CANVASS. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
haha pain...
No about that turkic people
I say that you know the history part of it?
When you open it it has a empty part that was a map before on it
And i cant edit that article to remove that little empty space i mean
And wait
Why you name Rezakhani in our speeches?
Cause the book i send was a unesco and another persons not rezakhani Twg7s7h (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Please take it to Talk:Turkic peoples. You asked me about a source regarding Bactria under the Sasanians and I gave you one. HistoryofIran (talk) 00:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
It's been a long time, but I'm pretty sure Rezakhani is basing his info on newly found texts/coins in Bactria
I thought you mean that book i send
No problem sorry
Forget about that turkic people i thing you don't get my words about
thx again your efforts on the wiki should be appreciated Twg7s7h (talk) 00:27, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Hey man how are you doing today
Sorry for bother you again
I found another source about gokturks annexe kadagistan (bactria region) in 570 to 581
Check this whats your opinion?
In AD 569-570 Turkic army launched a military expedition against Sasanian
Iran and conquered the territory of the former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to
Iran. In AD 570 the Turks were certainly operating in the Kabul-Gandhara area.
Source:
KURBANOV, AYDOGDY (2010)
"THE HEPHTHALITES: ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL ANALYSIS" page 190
Look at the year of publication: 2010 Twg7s7h (talk) 21:19, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, but I have already made it clear that I want no part in your dispute at Commons in regards to that map. My response is pretty much the same as earlier. Also, please read WP:RS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:41, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Yes i understand my work in that map is over
Just i send this cause of kadagistan
And just say do you think its true? Twg7s7h (talk) 00:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Government of the Khwarazmian Empire has been nominated for deletion

Category:Government of the Khwarazmian Empire has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. NLeeuw (talk) 13:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Government of the Samanid Empire has been nominated for deletion

Category:Government of the Samanid Empire has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. NLeeuw (talk) 14:58, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Talk: Caucasian dragon carpets

Yesterday I noticed a editor and a IP edit warring over the significance of the carpet in Armenia the article. They are now discussing after I prompted them to do so, but they don't seem to be coming to an agreement. I don't have particular expertise in subject area and im busy in real life as well, is it possible for you give a third opinion there? Fantastic Mr. Fox (talk) 11:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Fantastic Mr. Fox. At a first glance, both parties seem to bring up good sources. I have work soon - when I'm home, I'll do some digging and bring my third opinion. Bests. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Need third opinion for following edits

Hi, I need your expertise for the following pages. I would be happy if you could take a look. Since in Arabic and Chinese, I did not see separate naming inside Temp-lang for each variety of the language, I thought that instead of writing Southern or Northern Azerbaijani at the beginning of related pages, we could group them under the Azerbaijani macrolanguage umbrella (as it was before).

For the literature and language page, I compared it with Chinese and Arabic literature and language, and their written style also leaned towards varieties rather than separate languages.

I was wondering about your opinion.

You can see the above-mentioned differences in the latest reversions of my edits. Instead of deleting or writing blindly, I reverted them to the old edits.

Epic of Koroghlu

Qajar (tribe)

Ziyadoghlu Qajar

Bamsi Beyrek


Azerbaijani literature

Azerbaijani language

Additionally, since I see your edits about the Khanlik era, I was wondering if it is appropriate to keep Azerbaijani names on the following pages.

Malik Muhammad Khan

Muhammad Hasan, Khan of Ganja

Muhammad Khan of Ganja

Rahim Khan of Ganja


Thank you. Göycen (talk) 20:01, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi. I think simply "Azerbaijani" should be used rather than "Southern Azerbaijani" and "Northern Azerbaijani". WP:RS usually simply use "Azerbaijani/Azeri (Turkish)" when referring to both dialects, and "South Azerbaijani" is also historically inaccurate and politically motivated per WP:RS (eg [26] [27] [28]). Sorry, but response to the Azeri names is the same as here [29]. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I will go through them and act accordingly. Göycen (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Ottoman Persian War of 1743-1746

I added that this war was an ottoman defensive victory against Nader shah Afshar because of seiges such as Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Kars which resulted in an ottoman victory. However the Ottomans lost the battle of Kars and Mosul which hung the balance. Britannan2345 (talk) 17:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but in Wikipedia we follow WP:RS (in this case an academic source by a historian), not our own deductions. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

A gold mine full of problematic stuff

The article -stan is really bad and it needs a complete rewrite. I dropped editing it in April 2023. The article has become like a bloated dictionary page. IP users add/remove any information they want; e.g. some recent examples.[30][31][32][33][34]. The current state of article feels like a blog post representing opinion of users rather than the well-sourced and summarized content. @LouisAragon and Wikaviani: It could be interesting for you too. --Mann Mann (talk) 05:09, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me about this, Mann Mann. I'm 99% sure the removed bit about Ostandar "cited" by Daryaee and Ghereghlou has been wrongly used, since I was the one who cited them here in the Ostandar article, though with slightly different info. Though there's no way the IP (who obviously had anti-Persian and anti-Hazara motives) knew that. So yeah, even the sourced info has issues, which just reinforces what you just said even more, unfortunately. I would love to add it on my to do list, though I don't think I have any useful WP:RS on me to fix the article. There's probably some useful info in the Encyclopedias at Brill and some language sources, I'll see what I can find. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. The main issue of the article is unsourced materials, excessive details, and bloated content; from its lead section to all other sections. As I said, every user (especially IPs) has added something to it. The intention was good in the most cases but in the end they turned the article into a mess. For example, the sentence "It is widely used by Iranian languages..." in the lead is 100% personal commentary. Section Etymology and cognates suffers from WP:OR and irrelevant citations. And that big table in section Country names in various languages... Many entries are unsourced or just some kind of slang, meme, or internet stuff. To fix the issues, it should be rewritten and having a simple and clean tone/structure like Land (suffix). Another thing I found is -abad. Seriously why it redirects to Oikonyms in Western and South Asia? We have Abadi (rural locality) which is the right choice for the redirect. Someone should look at these Iranic/Persian[35][36] place names and suffixes and improve them; e.g. creating a list, merge or redirect them. Regards. --Mann Mann (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, forgot to reply to this. I 100% agree and will see what I can do in the near future. Bests. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for pinging me about this, I agree with both of you although I face the same issue mentioned by HystoryofIran, namely, the lack of sources. Best.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Deletion of an article that introduces a new person to Safavid dynasty

Hello, I thought this discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Miskin_Abdal could be interesting to you since you created pages for persons who were in charge of foreign affairs in early Safavid dynasty. This is regarding an article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miskin_Abdal, which obviously violates WP:RS and WP:GNG. Please add your suggestions or comments if any. Deletion page discussions are here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Miskin_Abdal. thx HeritageGuardian (talk) 05:44, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Fazel Khan Garrusi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Orientalist.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Thebiguglyalien -- Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir

The article Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir and Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Thebiguglyalien -- Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Socking

Really? Oh, you mean User:Gilanikmode? Because your diff pointed at someone who's been here for a decade. Drmies (talk) 14:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh yeah. Sorry, should have been more clear. It's Gilanikmode. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
I blocked a few more accounts--there is no charge. Drmies (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Drmies! HistoryofIran (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Sure thing. I'll send you my birthday wish list; you have almost two months to save up for a magnificent LEGO kit or something. BTW those were pretty inept edits, weren't they. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Easy, I have a great Harry Potter set in my mind. And yes they were indeed, User:PaullyMatthews ‎is certainly not putting much energy into staying incognito. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Sock alert

I have just checked your interaction with Wiawolo and I know who they are. Somany ottoman related article claimings of albanian origins and everything This is WP:HEVAL, who notably is "interested" in Albanians (see previous SPI reports). Aintabli (talk) 19:46, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Siege of Halicarnassus

Hello, I wanted to get help from you about an article. On the Siege of Halicarnassus page, it is emphasized that this battle was a Macedonian defeat. Historian Jona Lenderıng points out that this siege was a defeat for the Macedonians and that the castle was only built in It says that it was captured in 332 BC. Can you provide further support and development regarding the siege on this page? Keremmaarda (talk) 13:39, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Keremmaarda. Jona Lendering doesn't speak Turkish and I'm not sure who translated it, so that makes me wonder what the original source says? (The original source seems to be Alexander de Grote. De ondergang van het Perzische rijk). It's a pretty hefty claim, per the sourced lede of Alexander the Great he never lost an encounter. While I haven't looked into the Jona Lendering source, the Siege of Halicarnassus article currently says "Therefore, our sources could also describe the Siege of Halicarnassus as a direct Macedonian defeat." This seems to indicate that the result was indecisive. Sorry, but it's been a long time since I dipped my feet into this topic, I think it's best if you ask the people at Talk:Alexander the Great. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
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