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The Signpost: 02 December 2015

The Signpost: 09 December 2015

Hartmann Alligator Forceps

Please write a private Email to [email protected] and after delete this part. I like together with her to explain you. Some things are prepared since more than 30 years. Additional its not commercial. Its a carity like organisation. We hope for yours suggestions. Shure we will follow wikipedia guidelines. But sometimes happens that this guidelines change complete the content and reality. In mail i will you provide resources that are not available for private use and it takes special sometimes more than a year to prepare that this resources get free under CC-BY-SA.

You link additional to Arthur Hartmann as a Musician! This is total wrong. Arthur Hartmann was a German ENT specialist. Please help me to set a link to a Arthur Hartmann what is linking to a non existant page in wikipedia and i will start a Arthur Hartmann article, Similar it is the Arthur Hartmann in German wikipedia. This forceps is from historical point of view in 80 % the base idea for the endoscopy. The problem is that doctors develope and produce together with little companies (family like 5 -10 persons). And they do not have any interest to give the historical papers to wikipedia as reference special not by CC-BY-SA.

In a review i have to say that most of this articles have maior mistakes in wikipedia, because they are done from doctors without to recognize the manufactorers history. Thanks in advance to yours email. — Preceding text originally posted on User:Billinghurst (diff) by Arztde (talk⋅contribs) 12:40, 6 November 2015‎ (UTC) (UTC)

@Arztde: While you have your opinions we require reliable sources and hopefully diverse sources. Please seek advice from wikipedia:Teahouse as they are well equipped to assist. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: In all of respect in fron t of yours language the resources are as far as i see not available in big parts in English. It starts with the physician Hartmann that is for shure a double n because its in German language. You allways link to a musician who is for shure not the right one. And sources you find in German wikipedia. Other sources are today copyright free availble in Urdu and Punjabi language. You should know that producers of such instruments are very often analphabets. As you did see i can citate independant just for the word alligator. Because of the rules of Wikipedia no realy producer is named. There are clusters of families concentrate in one town Sialkot. In fact you will not find one real USA producer. Millner and others are not able to produce. http://www.dawn.com/ This pakistan newspaper i do try to involve in local journalists research. For example if i wish a tweezer with Tungsteen Carbide inlay You have to tell the manufactorer i wish a golden forceps. and than rest you descripe him. For the hartmann a colleaque did ask me for a variation and this needs to be descripe and than you get it as you need. --Arztde (talk) 13:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Arztde: I pointed you to the policies for inclusion of text, and you are welcome to argue them at a more appropriate place like the Tearoom. Arguing them here is pointless as I cannot change the community's rules. References do not need to be in English, they just need to be reliable sources, which is different from external links which would generally be in the language of the wiki, though that is arguable depending on the strength of the link. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:42, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Does this mean we should delete the complete article? I can only say than nearly 90 % of the surgery instruments should be delete. It is near translation of the article i did write in German. And here it was approved to be correct. I can only say that if you request a alligator forceps international and there is english spoken stuff they understand what instrument is have to be given to a doctor. The official name exist not in the english language. The english language change name from Hartmann to Hartman very often. and Hartmann foreign body forceps is unusual because there exist 2 different one and is not clear. Special you did change the name to small letters what is absolute wrong. Maybee by language correct but not in the official cataloges. The catalogs you find in german language because here was made from Tuttlingen a German town that host a cluster of these production. Anyways i do personaly no way to give better sources that are compliant to the copyright that is in the manufactorers hands. Maybee another will provide additional sources. I can say that the given sources or citisations are for shure to 95 % compliant to the doctors in the world because they will be find them equal but copyrighted in their cataloges. And therefore additional 90 % of this cataloges are stolen copyrighted materials. I see meanwhile if i got a catalog where the pictures are just copied from another manufactorer. I did try to solve it with photos and to describe them. Hartmann is the first i did try a movie was done special for wikipedia in Germany. But needs just subtitles in English. Maybee we start with this. I think also it is legal that i for shure do not provide copyrighted sources to wikipedia. I did found some sources that are official accepted by wikipedia but these sources are stolen copyrights. Mainly schematic pictures. --Arztde (talk) 21:41, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

As I said please progress the issue through Wikipedia:Teahouse, I am unable to support your matters at this time. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 16 December 2015

The Signpost: 30 December 2015

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