User:Allreet/Current

Founding Fathers Edit History

Current Page: Founding Fathers of the United States

Observations

Based on the page's edit history, here are some considerations for improving the Founding Fathers page, most of which relate to sources. A fair amount of this has been resolved with edits and new sources.

• Since the beginning, basic concepts (for example, "groupings" and "subsets") have been introduced and then refined over time as something of a synthesis.
• Lists of specific signers have never had sources even though reliable ones are readily available.
• Sources that are cited often do not verify the text.
• Changes in section titles and lead-in text have been made somewhat arbitrarily, even though the differences are significant (e.g. signatories vs. founders).
• Focus should be on prevailing scholarship, not just what a couple random sources have to say, however "authoritative" they might be.
  • The article should reflect the uncertainty, the fact that no consensus exists and that the title is intangible. Unlike an Academy Award, it's all based on opinion.
  • Most prominent sources support signers of Declaration/Constitution and recognize a sizeable group of Others.
  • Only a few sources (few being relative to most) recognize signers of Articles of Confederation.
  • Perhaps one significant source recognizes signers of Continental Association.

Additional Thoughts

• Conclusion: Wikipedia should not be defining founders or give undue weight to minority views. Wikipedia "follows", it does not lead the way.
• The Founding Fathers page has one million page views annually - readers deserve the most reliable resource possible on the subject
• FA status for the page is doable and should be our goal.

History of Major Edits

Most of the changes noted below affect the Lead and List of Founders/Signatories section since these define the subject and are the areas of most interest to readers.

Page created March 21, 2004

contents as of the date's last edit:

1 America's Founding Fathers: A Brief Overview
1.1 Political Experience
1.2 Occupations
1.3 Geographic and Educational Background
1.4 Longevity and Family Life
1.5 Post-Convention Careers
2 List of Founding Fathers (all listed in columns)
2.1 Signers of the Constitution
2.2 Signers of the Declaration
2.3 Others

April 26, 2005

2 List of Founding Fathers
separate sub-sections replaced with lists in crude tables: Constitution, Declaration, and Others

November 4, 2005

pictures added to lists of signers

November 10, 2005

new titles for sub-sections:
1 List of Founding Fathers
1.1 The 56 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
1.2 The 39 Signers of the Constitution
1.3 The 16 Delegates to the Constitutional Convention that did not sign
1.4 Others

May 14, 2006

pictures incomplete, formatting problems, moved to Gallery (later restored and then removed again)

sections reorganized, title "List of Founding Fathers" dropped:
1 The 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence
2 Constitutional Convention delegates
2.1 The 39 signers of the Constitution
2.2 The 16 Delegates who did not
2.3 Overview plus other subsections
3 Others (total of 8)

July 28, 2006

1 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
2 Constitutional Convention delegates
2.1 Delegates who signed
2.2 16 Delegates who did not sign
3 Others (8 are listed)

August 29, 2006

1 Signatories of the Declaration of Independence (new title)
2 Constitutional Convention delegates
2.1 Delegates who signed
2.2 16 Delegates who did not sign
3 Others (8 are listed)

December 10, 2006

1 Signatures of the Declaration of Independence
2 Constitutional Convention delegates
2.1 Delegates who signed
3 Headline text (that's wht it said)
3.1 16 Delegates who did not sign
4 Other Revolutionary-era Figures Considered as Founding Fathers (new title)

December 17, 2006

1 Signatures of the Declaration of Independence
2 Constitutional Convention delegates
2.1 Delegates who signed
2.2 16 Delegates who did not sign
3 Other Revolutionary-era figures considered as Founding Fathers

September 26, 2007

2 Signatories of the Declaration of Independence
3 Constitutional Convention delegates
3.1 Delegates who signed
3.2 13 Delegates who had left the Convention earlier and did not sign
3.3 3 Delegates who refused to sign
4 Other Revolutionary-era figures considered as Founding Fathers
5 Founding Mothers (new section)

October 11, 2007

Founding Mothers removed

April 15, 2008

Lead expanded to discuss difference between Framers and Founders...Citations Needed template posted to Others section (lists 19)

April 24, 2008

new section title:
4 Other Founders

April 25, 2008

Harding added to lead

September 29, 2008

2 Legacy (new section)
3 Signatories of the Declaration of Independence
4 Constitutional Convention delegates
4.1 Delegates who signed
4.2 Delegates who had left the Convention earlier and did not sign
4.3 Delegates who refused to sign
5 Other Founders

April 3, 2009

3 Signatories of the Declaration of Independence
4 Constitutional Convention delegates
4.1 Delegates who signed
4.2 Delegates who had left the Convention earlier and did not sign
4.3 Delegates who refused to sign
5 Other Founders
6 Colonial predecessors (new section)

June 17, 2009

Robert Morris's "7 greats" added to lead

Also added to lead:

Most historians define the "founding fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians or jurists or statesmen or soldiers or diplomats or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America. (source Bernstein, Founding Fathers Reconsidered)

new breakdown in sections: 3 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
4 Delegates to the Federal Convention (also Constitutional Convention or Philadelphia Convention)
4.1 Delegates who signed
4.2 Delegates who had left the Convention earlier and did not sign
4.3 Delegates who refused to sign
5 Other Founders
6 Colonial predecessors

August 18, 2009

Colonial Predecessors removed as not founders

"Founders" section re-organized:
3 List of the Founding Fathers (title reintroduced)
3.1 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
3.2 Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
3.2.1 Delegates who signed
3.2.2 Delegates who had left the Convention earlier and did not sign
3.2.3 Delegates who refused to sign
3.3 Other Founders

January 27, 2011

Morris's "7 Greats" listed in bulleted column in lead (later reverted)

August 28, 2011stanas

citation needed tags placed on each person under Other Founders, which now lists 35

September 8, 2011

"Founders" section re-organized:
3 List of the Founding Fathers
3.1 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
3.2 Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
3.2.1 Signers of the Constitution
3.2.2 Delegates who left the Convention without signing
3.2.3 Convention delegates who refused to sign
3.3 Signers of the Articles of Confederation (new section with no source)
3.4 Other Founders

lead-in to Articles section: "The following people signed the Articles of Confederation:"

September 9, 2011

citations completed for everyone under Other Founders, which now lists 49

lead-in to Other Founders: "The following people are referred to in the cited reliable sources as having been fathers or founders of the United States."

'December 30, 2011

By the end of the article's 7th year, the list of signers to the Articles had been introduced, but discussion and analysis of the founders was limited to delegates/singers of the Constitution, with barely mention of the Declaration.

May 15, 2012

"Founders" section re-organized:
4 List of the Founding Fathers
4.1 Signers of the Continental Association (new section)
4.2 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
4.3 Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
4.3.1 Signers of the Constitution
4.3.2 Delegates who left the Convention without signing
4.3.3 Convention delegates who refused to sign
4.4 Signers of the Articles of Confederation
4.5 Other founders

no intro to new section, lists delegates by Colony, no citation

October 27, 2014

lead shortened, new Terminology section added, oddly Harding is removed entirely

1 Terminology (new section)

"Founders" section re-organized:
6 List of the Founding Fathers
6.1 Signers of the Continental Association
6.2 Signers of the Declaration of Independence
6.3 Delegates to the Constitutional Convention
6.3.1 Signers of the Constitution
6.3.2 Delegates who left the Convention without signing
6.3.3 Convention delegates who refused to sign
6.4 Signers of the Articles of Confederation
6.5 Other founders

new para added replacing former lead text:
"Within the large group known as the 'Founding Fathers', there are two key subsets, those who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776) and those who framed the Constitution in 1787. A further subset includes those who signed the Articles of Confederation. (citation: Jack Stanfield, Founding Fathers: Why Are They? Thumbnail Sketches)

Comment: A lone source expands the list of founders to include Articles of Confederation, even though the vast majority of sources do not recognize this? Stanfield's book is a lightweight work (sketches of everyone), plus he has no authority to do make this decision. He's not Isaacson or McCullough and certainly not Morris or the National Archives.

March 27, 2015

Terminology renamed Etymology

October 7, 2015

Etymology section merged with lead (Harding still missing).

new lead paragraphs that haven't changed a great deal since. The text, poorly written/organized, does not reflect "prevailing scholarship". It gives the same basic weight to the Articles of Confederation (a few sources) that's given he Declaration and Constitution (most sources). Anyway, the following paragraphs are something of a mess and lack sufficient sources.

"The term Founding Fathers of the United States of America refers broadly to the individuals of the Thirteen British Colonies in North America who led the American Revolution against the authority of the British Crown and established the United States of America. It is also used more narrowly, referring specifically to those who either signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 or who were delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention and took part in drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States. A further subset includes those who signed the Articles of Confederation. [Stanfield citation] During much of the 19th century, they were referred to as either the 'Founders' or the 'Fathers'.

"Some historians define the 'Founding Fathers' to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians, jurists, statesmen, soldiers, diplomats, or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.[Bernstein citation] Historian Richard B. Morris in 1973 identified the following seven figures as the key Founding Fathers: John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington. <Morris citation> Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin worked on the committee to draft the Declaration of Independence. Hamilton, Madison and Jay, were authors of the The Federalist Papers, advocating ratification of the Constitution. Washington commanded the revolutionary army. All served in important positions in the early government of the United States."

October 28, 2015

"Founders" section re-organized:
5 Lists of the Founding Fathers
5.1 Signers of the Continental Association (1774)
5.2 Signers of the Declaration of Independence (1776)
5.3 Signers of the Articles of Confederation (1777)
5.4 Delegates (55) to the 1787 Constitutional Convention
5.4.1 Signers (39) of the Constitution
5.4.2 Delegates (13) who left the Convention without signing
5.4.3 Convention delegates (3) who refused to sign
5.5 Other founders

November 10, 2015

all lists merged into new sortable table, without sources or explanatory lead-in: 5 Lists of Founding Fathers
5.1 Signatories to key historical documents (new title)
5.2 Other founders

July 7, 2016

"Founders" section re-organized with new titles:
4 Lists (new title)
4.1 Signatories to key historical documents
4.2 Other founders

July 14, 2016

Lead-in added to Signatories table (no mention of founders): "The following individuals signed one or more of the four historical documents of the United States" (Continental Association, Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, and the United States Constitution):"

March 25, 2017

moved list from 4th to 2nd section:
2 Founding Fathers (new title)
2.1 Signatories to key historical documents
2.2 Other founders

April 5, 2017

significant edits to lead (and again on April 6)

sections reorganized, "Founding Fathers" dropped:
4 Signatories to key historical documents
5 Other founders

April 6, 2017

sections reorganized:
2 Founding Fathers - Interesting Facts and Commonalities (new title)
2.11 Founders Who Were Not Signatories or Delegates (new title)

new lead-in to Signatories section:
"The National Archives defines America's Founding Documents or 'Charters of Freedom' as the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.[National Archives] The following individuals signed one or more of the following historical documents: (Continental Association (CA), Declaration of Independence (DI), Articles of Confederation (AC), and the United States Constitution (USC):"

Note: The text is sourced and is accurate. Later, the reference to the National Archives and its citation would be dropped because it conflicts with the new phrase "four major founding documents" and then the assertion that "signers of the Continental Association are considered Founding Fathers".

April 7, 2017

Harding restored

April 9, 2017

sections re-organized:
2 Founding Fathers - Interesting Facts and Commonalities
2.9 Signatories to Key Historical Documents(title reintroduced)
2.12 Founders Who Were Not Signatories or Delegates

April 10, 2017

new title list section "Charters of Freedom and Historical Documents of the United States", new intro added:
"The National Archives and Records Administration also known as NARA, defines America's Founding Documents or Charters of Freedom as the Declaration of Independence (1776), The Constitution (1787) and the Bill of Rights (1791). These original instruments which represent the philosophy of our young nation are housed in Washington, D. C. in the NARA Rotunda. [National Archives citation] The Library of Congress further identifies the Articles of Confederation, also preserved at NARA, as a primary American document [53]. Th Articles of Confederation served as the first constitution of the United States until its replacement by the present Constitution on March 4, 1789."

Signatories of two of the Charters of Freedom, The Articles of Confederation and the Continental Association are indicated below. (Continental Association (CA), Declaration of Independence (DI), Articles of Confederation (AC), and the United States Constitution (USC)):

May 2, 2019

new title list section:
2.10 Signatories to founding documents

added new lead-in to section with Werther citation:
"Among the state documents promulgated between 1774 and 1789 by the Continental Congress, four are paramount: the Continental Association, the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. Altogether, 145 men signed at least one of the four documents. In each instance, roughly 50% of the names signed are unique to that document. Only a few persons (6) signed three of the four, and only Roger Serman of Connecticut signed all of them.[Werther] The following persons signed one or more of these formative documents:"

Note: Werther is being cited here only for his analysis. In July 2021, his article would be given a new interpretation the support the expansion of the founders list to include signers of the Continental Association..

May 5, 2019

current lede added
apparently derived from Encyclopedia Britannica FF article

July 29, 2019

re-organized sections:
3 Signatories to founding documents
4 Other notable people of the period (new title)

June 2, 2021

"classical liberalism" added to lede

July 28, 2021

moved table to 2nd section from much further down in the article and dropped its subsections:<br 2 Signatories to founding documents

July 30, 2021

2 List of Founding Fathers (title reintroduced)

'new lead-in to list (no source):

• from..."The following persons signed one or more of these United States formative documents:"
• to... "The following persons are considered Founding Fathers of the United States of America, including some who did not sign a formative document:"

Note: In conjunction with this change, as well as the earlier addition of the Articles of Confederation, approximately 50 biographical articles were changed to label the subjects "founding fathers". The only citation in the List of Founding Fathers section is Werther's article, which supports only the section's analysis, not the new lead-in sentence. Test