Template talk:Infobox football biography/Archive 9

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Archive 9

Additional College parameter

Can a fourth college parameter be added? "collegeyears4" "college4" "collegecaps4" and "collegegoals4". Currently it only goes up to 3. The fourth is needed for C. J. Smith (soccer). It is not showing the fourth due to not existing. Thanks in advance. RedPatch (talk) 14:37, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 8 June 2022

Add the parameters collegeyears4= , college4= , collegecaps4= , collegegoals4= to the infobox template. Currently those do not exist (only goes up to 3), thus it is not showing for C. J. Smith (soccer). Thanks. RedPatch (talk) 13:34, 8 June 2022 (UTC) RedPatch (talk) 13:34, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done S.A. Julio (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! RedPatch (talk) 20:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio Heads up, I just checked the Wikipedia Page for the Template, and while the changes have been made, the Template Example View has not been updated to show that a fourth 'College Years' entry is allowed, and the parameters section also only goes to 3. Christhecoolboy (talk) 22:57, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Additional Fields for 'Personal information'

I'd like to see the addition of two optional fields in the 'Personal information' section, that I believe are key to understanding how a footballer moves and plays, 'Weight' and 'Footedness'. 'Weight' should be between 'Height' and 'Position(s)', and 'Footedness' should be after 'Positions'. Weight is key in understanding how a player moves on the field, whereas Footedness is key to understanding how they'd play. If they're a Right Winger, but is Left Footed, that means an entirely different thing to somebody who was footed the same side as they play. Christhecoolboy (talk) 22:52, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Weight (unlike height) is a highly volatile statistic, as it can easily change from one year to another. Also, what weight would we record for a retired player? Their weight as an active footballer, or that of a 70-year-old retired guy? Nehme₁₄₉₉ 23:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Agreed - and 'footedness' is trivial as well. GiantSnowman 15:23, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Honorific_suffix

Suggest adding |honorific_suffix= to this template - see for example Don Revie and Walter Smith. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:59, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Disagree - we have an embed function for a reason. GiantSnowman 19:49, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Players with more than 10 youth clubs

@Frietjes and @GiantSnowman, can you expand it to 15 youth clubs since players like Tana (footballer) have played for more than 10 youth clubs. ManiacOfSport (talk) 16:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I put something in the sandbox. will see if there are any objections. Frietjes (talk) 16:07, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@ManiacOfSport: as a side note, what's the source for all those youth clubs? Nehme₁₄₉₉ 16:14, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@Nehme1499, the reference regarding his last youth club (Unión Viera) that is not appearing in Infobox due to restrictions is from La Provincia. ManiacOfSport (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

References

Template-protected edit request on 18 October 2022

Could it be made possible so that the total caps and total goals display, even if only one of the parameters has a value? Often times we have partial (or missing) caps but complete goals. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 08:10, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Please can you give me an example? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:20, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@MSGJ: see Paul Rustom. I wrote "| totalcaps = " and "| totalgoals = 63", but nothing displays. If I were to add anything after the "=" sign for totalcaps, such as "| totalcaps = 0", it would then display "Total 0 (63)" on the front end. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 14:25, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

I suspect this is a problem with Template:Infobox3cols and I have posted a question over there. Currently you can't display data in column 3 unless column 1 and/or column 2 has data in it — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:38, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

I've put a probably inadvisable hack in the sandbox (entering a space character if the #if evaluates to false). It might do until something better comes along. See this test case. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:42, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I implemented a version of the hack. Frietjes (talk) 19:43, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Cryptic (GIs) heading

The (GIs) heading is opaque. What does it mean? My assumption is the that the G stands for goals but what is the rest of it, and what does the fact that it is inside parentheses tell the reader? Since the heading label is not self-explanatory, it should have a link which causes a pop-up explanation when the cursor is hovered over it, or better yet, an asterisk or dagger indicating a small print gloss at the foot of the table. 76.130.145.101 (talk) 21:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay, on more careful inspection I found a dotted-line link present but it is tricky to see and does not work on a mobile phone. I zoomed in to look at the header more closely. When I tapped it the link does not cause an explanation to appear, even when I switched to Desktop Mode in my browser. So, no explanation is available for mobile phone users. 76.130.145.101 (talk) 21:50, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not GIs, it's Gls (abbreviation of "goals") -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:05, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Full name

I believe the description for the |full name= parameter should say something along the lines of, The player's complete name, if different to name. This would avoid the pointless repetition seen in Harry McKirdy, Duncan Edwards and John Wark (and probably many more football biographies). It's of no benefit to repeat the exact same name twice in the infobox, and would also be consistent with other biographical infoboxes that use the full name/birth name parameters. Thoughts? – ².O.^Boxing 16:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Fully agree. Kante4 (talk) 17:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Disagree. There's a difference between the full name being absent because it's the same as the common name, and it being absent because Wikipedia doesn't know what it is. We need to allow the readers to see that difference. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I also disagree per Struway. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 17:38, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Struway and Nehme (and therefore disagree with the proposal). GiantSnowman 19:05, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes I also disagree per Struway.--EchetusXe 19:55, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Same here. If a player doesn't have a middle name, we should indicate that in the fullname parameter with a source. – PeeJay 20:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I also disagree. Having the full name shown makes it clear that it is the player's full name -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:32, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I see the logic now. Thanks Struway2, PeeJay, ChrisTheDude. The explanation is much appreciated. – ².O.^Boxing 20:39, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Caps vs apps?

Is it just me or is it weird how we use "caps" for every parameter that calls for a number of appearances? I get it for national teams, since most of them award caps (although not all appearances for a national team are capped), but we definitely shouldn't be using "caps" for club appearances. Some clubs have awarded caps in the past, but that's definitely something that went out of fashion about a century ago. I know we use this template on thousands and thousands of pages, but would it be possible to change every use of "caps" to "apps"? – PeeJay 12:20, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I also agree that using "caps" for club "apps" is a bit weird. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 12:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 26 December 2022

Description of suggested change: Add a switch for the "Honours" section to display as "Honors" for American players (enabled by a new parameter, possibly |American=yes) to comply with MOS:ENGVAR.

Diff:

−

{{{medaltemplates-title|Honours}}}

+

{{{medaltemplates-title|{{#if:{{{American|}}}|Honors|Honours}}}}}

SounderBruce 03:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 08:39, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 11 January 2023

Description of suggested change: I feel this template should be altered to allow for honorific suffixes and post-nominals; it's increasingly common for footballers to be awarded these honours, and other sportsperson templates allow for it; why should football be different to cricket or athletics, for example? Diff:

−

+

honorific_suffix =

OGBC1992 (talk) 14:36, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

There is already an embed feature for those that need additional parameters - which is not every person with a post-nominal. GiantSnowman 14:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

If there is consensus to add this, can we also add honorific_prefix too? Joseph2302 (talk) 16:49, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

I believe that this edit is what is required. I copied the code from Template:Infobox person, using exactly the same parameter names and aliases (and, as it happens, these are the same ones that {{Infobox sportsperson}} uses too); so that you would use e.g.

|honorific_prefix = Sir
|name             = Bobby Charlton
|honorific_suffix = {{postnom|country=GBR|CBE}}

etc. It will of course require testing, for which Template:Infobox football biography/testcases#Honorific prefix and suffix may be used, see WP:TESTCASES. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:51, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

It looks like the testcases are showing what the OP is asking - does this mean that the sandbox should be made live? Primefac (talk) 08:54, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

That, and this needs consensus. I count GiantSnowman's comment as an objection, and thus don't see consensus for this. Deactivating edit request. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:38, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Necessity of "totalyears" parameter

I was wondering, is the "totalyears" parameter really necessary for this infobox? It is used to list the year span of a player's club career, for example see Arie van Lent. I don't think this provides particularly useful information, as the span of a player's career can be quite easily discerned from the infobox, unlike the total number of league appearances and goals. I had never seen it used on an article before, with a search revealing it is only used on 17 of the 203,850 transclusions of this infobox. S.A. Julio (talk) 08:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I've never even seen it before! GiantSnowman 18:39, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I think we should remove that parameter, rarely used per opening edit of this section and we can definitely see the start and end years of a retired footballer's career without that parameter in use. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, totally unnecessary. GiantSnowman 21:06, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. I had no idea it existed either. Shows how it is not needed if we all didn't know and didn't even care. RedPatch (talk) 22:52, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Alright, as there seems to be little need for it, and for the sake of consistency between articles I've gone ahead and removed the parameter. S.A. Julio (talk) 07:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I agree as well. CRwikiCA talk 20:24, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Purpose of dash when year parameter omitted?

I was wondering, is there any need to have an en dash displayed in the 'Years' column whenever the year parameter is omitted? This is not done when the year parameter is given, but just empty. Take the following two examples:

Example 1 (years1 is empty)

John Smith

Senior career*
Years	Team	Apps	(Gls)
	Foo FC
*Club domestic league appearances and goals

{{Infobox football biography
|name           = John Smith
|years1         =
|clubs1         = Foo FC
}}

Example 2 (years1 is omitted)

John Smith

Senior career*
Years	Team	Apps	(Gls)
–	Foo FC
*Club domestic league appearances and goals

{{Infobox football biography
|name           = John Smith
|clubs1         = Foo FC
}}

Neither example provides a value for years1, but in the second case the infobox generates a stray en dash in the years column. Maybe there was once a technical purpose for this, but I do not see what use it serves currently. Thanks, S.A. Julio (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

It should be as per Example 1 IMHO. GiantSnowman 16:28, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright, if there is no opposition I will go ahead and remove it, as it seems to be in violation of MOS:DASH. S.A. Julio (talk) 23:20, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Now  Done. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:29, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

"Honours" heading for medal templates

Should the heading text for the medals in the infobox be changed? Currently "Honours" is displayed, though this is somewhat vague and could imply club honours can be listed, which is not the case per WP:FOOTYMEDALS. Therefore, should the wording be changed to something like "International medal record" or "National team medal record"? This would follow similar wording used for other infoboxes such as {{Infobox sportsperson}} and {{MedalTableTop}}, and would clarify the scope is for national team honours. S.A. Julio (talk) 05:51, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I personally think that it is not that necessary at all as we, the editors, usually use source links to validate information about football players' accomplishments. NextEditor123 (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with sources, but rather the wording used for the heading of the medal template section within this infobox. S.A. Julio (talk) 09:05, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

It does not change my point that it is unnecessary. "Honour" section for each players' articles are fine. NextEditor123 (talk) 09:08, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

There is already consensus to include international medals in the infobox, see WP:FOOTYMEDALS. S.A. Julio (talk) 09:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

So what's the point of this talk? I don't understand what you are offering. NextEditor123 (talk) 16:25, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

This is regarding the wording of the text for the medal section of the infobox. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:02, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

If there is no opposition, I will implement the change shortly. S.A. Julio (talk) 15:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Date of Birth to Born

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I couldn't find anything in the archive.

Why is it over-specified in the both the date of birth and place. Why not have these amalgamated under one heading Born like the Template:Infobox person. The way it is now, it's overly wordy and can be simplified. Thanks. MicrobiologyMarcus (talk) 17:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I think your suggestion would lead to editors assuming that only a year of birth might be sufficient. Likely not, but we can't assume one way or the other. Date of birth would bypass that ambiguity. Seasider53 (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. GiantSnowman 18:25, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Add new parameter?

Currently with the case of transfer of Messi and Benzema, I think we should add new parameter in infobox named "Future club" or something (I don't know if it's a correct phrase, feel free to suggest a more correct phrase) to this template. Infobox in both of those page remain unchanged because their contract in the current club expired on 30 June. This will eliminate unnecessary edit war and edit requests in these pages in the present and similar case in the future. (Benzema article protection level even just recently upgraded to extended protection level.) New parameter is clearly needed because only put the new club in lead paragraph is not enough and many readers (including myself) just look straight into the infobox. Hddty (talk) 06:03, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I do not see the need for such a parameter, it would likely be improperly used for transfer rumours and signings which have not yet been completed. In the case of Messi, he has not even signed a contract yet with the club, so nothing should be mentioned in the infobox. It is better to wait the few weeks until a player's contract officially starts. S.A. Julio (talk) 14:44, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed - this will lead to more disruption, not less. GiantSnowman 18:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Text didn't lined up in mobile version

These are my screenshots in articles:

• Cristiano Ronaldo (apps & Portugals a little bit not lined up): [1]

• Mohamed Salah (apps & Fiorentina loan): [2]

• Kylian Mbappe (apps & PSG): [3]

This has been going for a long time, I thought someone would fix this considering this template is highly used. Hddty (talk) 15:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

"GIs"

I can't find out what "GIs" stands for, and I guess I'm not the only one. Best guess, the G stands for goal, so why not use that?

If it is necessesary, how can it be explained? --2003:EA:E704:9311:B463:F4AA:33A:DCCC (talk) 00:23, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

It's short for "Goals". If you hover your mouse over it, a tooltip is displayed showing an expansion of the term. Try hovering over these, which I've copied from the template code: Gls; Gls; Gls. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't work on MacBook btw... GiantSnowman 17:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Works on my MacBook Pro. Are MacBooks different in that regard? – PeeJay 11:30, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Works on my MacBook Air. Will be a software/browser limitation. Seasider53 (talk) 12:32, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

The tooltip is not visible on mobile, so that doesn’t help everyone. I am also confused about what “GIs” means. “Goals” would be much clearer. BenMathews (talk) 09:16, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any problem with writing it out like that. It's only two extra characters. – PeeJay 20:23, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

College update parameter

Can we add a "college-update" parameter that goes at the bottom with the update date for the college stats like we have with the club stats and national team stats. RedPatch (talk) 01:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I just update the club parameter. GiantSnowman 08:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Nationality

I suggest the addition of a field "Nationality", as defined by the legal bond between an individual and a State (UN definition). Frenchl (talk) 06:15, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

NB editor has now been indefinitely blocked for disruption. GiantSnowman 19:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)