Template:Did you know nominations/Teikō Shiotani

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:50, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

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Teikō Shiotani

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  • ... that during a three-day trip around Shimane, the photographer Teikō Shiotani and four friends feared they would starve but eventually found curry and rice with duck eggs? Source: "We took photographs for three days and I thought we would die.... During that trip we didn't encounter a single woman. There were no inns; we just wrapped ourselves in straw mats and kept on walking. Finally we managed to get some curry and rice with duck eggs and it was delicious." Which is my translation of 「三日間、死ぬ思いして撮ったんじゃよ。（中略）まるで女に会わん旅じゃった。宿屋もなく、ゴザをまとい、ただただ歩いた。やっと、ありついたアヒルの卵入りのライスカレーがうまかったなあ」. Quoted in Takayuki Kobayashi (小林孝之), "Honshi sōkan 50-shūnen kinen tokushū: Besutan no aji o ikiru: Dai-ikkai getsurei shashin nyūsen Shiotani Teikō shi no baai" (本誌創刊50周年記念特集　ベス単の味を生きる　第一回月例写真入選塩谷定好氏の場合; This magazine's 50th anniversary special: Living for the feel of the Vest Pocket Kodak: The case of Teikō Shiotani, winner of the first monthly exhibition), Asahi Camera, April 1976, pp. 161–164. (For more detail, see the talk page.)

5x expanded by Hoary (talk). Self-nominated at 23:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC).

  • Date, size, copyvio check, neutrality, hook, all GTG. There is just one problem: the story from the hook does not seem to exist in the article. Please add it there. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:33, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
  • That's a serious problem indeed! But, ummm ... Right under the second paragraph of the section titled "Prominence", my browser shows me a block quotation saying:We took photographs for three days and I thought we would die. . . . During that trip we didn't encounter a single woman. There were no inns; we just wrapped ourselves in straw mats and kept on walking. Finally we managed to get some curry and rice with duck eggs and it was delicious.[n 7]. (Note 7 provides the source, and what was said in the original Japanese.) -- Hoary (talk) 05:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
  • . . . but my apologies, Prokonsul, if I've somehow misunderstood you (as I suspect). -- Hoary (talk) 05:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
  • @Hoary: My point is that the story should be added to the body of the article. If it is good enough for the hook, it should be good enough to be moved from the quotation and into the article proper. Readers may want to read more about it from the DYK, but right now the article doesn't discuss it. Ex. searching for the word "starve" gets nothing. In general, I recommend that hooks are based on sentences found in the articles proper. See also WP:ASTONISH. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:53, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
  • @Piotrus: I suppose I could change it to Much later, Shiotani told Shōji Ueda that they'd taken photographs for three days but that he'd thought they'd die: there were no inns, and they just wrapped ourselves in straw mats and kept on walking. Finally, said Shiotani, they managed to get some curry and rice with duck eggs, which was delicious. But this seems inferior to the way that it is now. If I could stomach the change and the result of the change would satisfy you, then I could make it, and the article would eventually get its little mention in DYK, and one day later I'd be greatly tempted to revert to the direct (if translated) quotation. But such a change one way and then back the other might contravene some guideline or other, and even if it doesn't strikes me as a bit too cynical. Putting aside my nefarious plan for a later reversion, my unenthusiastically proposed rewording probably wouldn't satisfy you: You point out that "right now the article doesn't discuss" the starvation/curry business, and it still wouldn't discuss it. Really, this a story that (like many didja-knows) doesn't seem to me to merit a discussion; and more importantly (since this is WP) I can't confect my own discussion ("original research"), and I haven't yet encountered any discussion that the article might cite. (There could well be some in the 1984 book Uminari no fūkei, but there are only so many hours in my day.) Please feel free to fail this nomination. -- Hoary (talk) 07:25, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
  • @Hoary:~It would be a shame to fail this on a minor technical ground, but at the same time I don't feel comfortable passing it with the current hook. Could you suggest a different one? Or we can wait for a second DYK reviewer opinion (but that may be weeks or months away, given current backlog). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:28, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
  • @Piotrus:, thank you. I'll try to think of other hooks, after I've returned to WP following a break of one or two days. (Tomorrow I'll enjoy the world outside my house, while I'm still permitted to do so.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

How about the following, Prokonsul?

Teikō Shiotani's View with weather forecast
Teikō Shiotani's View with weather forecast

-- Hoary (talk) 03:59, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

  • I have taken the liberty of removing the second "that" from ALT1 to get it down below 200 prose characters (199 excluding "(pictured)"), and also properly formatted the article bold link in it and also the new image for DYK purposes. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:02, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you, BlueMoonset. I suppose we could also zap "an upstairs window of". Hmm, come to think of it, I think I'd slightly prefer zapping that and restoring the "that" in front of "he exaggerated". What about it? (Meanwhile, I should be grateful that Sadayoshi Shiotani decided to call himself Teikō Shiotani, thereby saving me four characters.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:00, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
@Hoary: Just one nitpick: the article uses the phrase View with forecasted weather and the hook uses View with weather forecast. Consistency is a good thing. Can we chose one variant? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:11, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
That's bizarre. I mean, I somehow hadn't noticed the discrepancy. Thank you for pointing it out. View with weather forecast is less awkward and I can't think of any drawbacks, so just now I edited the article for consistent use of this title. -- Hoary (talk) 06:03, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
To editor Piotrus: Is there any other problem that I should attend to? -- Hoary (talk) 21:52, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
We are GTG. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
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