Template:Did you know nominations/Frederick E. Betts

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 21:09, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Frederick E. Betts

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... that as part of a World War I patriotic fundraiser, Frederick E. Betts agreed to run in a "fat man's race"? [1]
- ALT1:... that Frederick E. Betts was described as "likely to go down in hockey history as the most prolific and entertaining author of hockey letters"? [2]
- ALT2:... that Frederick E. Betts was described as the original "ginger kid" of Saskatchewan athletics, one of the "live wires" of the province, and "a hustler who gets results with few equals"? [3]
  - ALT2a: ... that Frederick E. Betts was described as "the original 'ginger kid' of Saskatchewan athletics", one of the "live wires" of the province, and "a hustler ... who gets results [with] few equals"? Source: per ALT2
  - ALT2b: ... that Frederick E. Betts was described as "the original 'ginger kid' of Saskatchewan athletics", a "live wires" and "a hustler ... who gets results"? Source: per ALT2
  - ALT2c: ... that Frederick E. Betts was described as "the original 'ginger kid' of Saskatchewan athletics" and a "live wire"? Source: per ALT2
- ALT3:... that Frederick E. Betts was an enthusiast for fast cars and good roads, and organized the establishment of 37 automobile clubs in Northern Saskatchewan? fast cars and good roads 37 automobile clubs

Reviewed: Shandon Castle, Cork

Created by Flibirigit (talk). Self-nominated at 00:09, 3 May 2021 (UTC).

Article is new enough, long enough, neutral, cited and with no copyvio detected. QPQ verified. Hooks are of good size, well formatted, cited in article and interesting. Spot-checked sources, with thorough check of hook facts and quotations, all good except for following. Query: Regarding ALT2, the quotation from the source was actually larger than presented. I've fixed that presentation in the article, but the quotation in the hook needs to be extended or partially paraphrased (generally, I feel that quotes in hooks should be as short as NPOV allows). I'll wait for changes to ALT2 before giving the tick, unless you want to scratch ALT2. – Reidgreg (talk) 21:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- I cannot understand the feedback for ALT2. The statements "hook needs to be extended" and "should be as short as NPOV allows" seem contradictory. Flibirigit (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
  - Sorry for the confusion, that wasn't very well phrased on my part. If you look at the changes I made to the article, I altered the formatting around the "ginger kid" sentence from described Betts as the original "ginger kid" of Saskatchewan athletics, one of the "live wires" of the province, and "a hustler who gets results with few equals". to described Betts as "the original 'ginger kid' of Saskatchewan athletics", one of the "live wires" of the province, and "a hustler ... who gets results [with] few equals". This more accurately represents the text taken from the source. I suspect the first part was a quotes-within-quotes (MOS:QWQ) situation that lost its context at some point, while the last part didn't show alterations to the quoted text (MOS:ELLIPSIS and MOS:PMC). As for the ALT2 hook, as it stands it's a [minor] copyvio because it is using more of the source than is represented by the placement of the quotation marks. To avoid copyvio, you either need to extend the quotation marks out to cover the full first quote (and note the alterations to the text in the last quote), or else paraphrase and/or drop some of the text around the juicier parts of the quote(s). Maybe you could do the former as ALT2a and the latter as ALT2b? I didn't want to propose a new hook myself, as that would necessitate bringing in another reviewer. I hope this makes sense. BTW, I feel you did an excellent job with the article, which looks ready for GAN. – Reidgreg (talk) 12:07, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
    - This explanation goes beyond my comprehension. It is best for the reviewer to propose a hook and request another reviewer. Flibirigit (talk) 14:37, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
      - New reviewer requested for ALT2a and ALT2b, I've checked and approved the others (but I don't want to confuse the bot by ticking). – Reidgreg (talk) 18:46, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
        @Flibirigit: I believe I am understanding what Reidgreg was referring to and this brings me much more appreciation for the work of those in WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. I would approve the hook they reformated as described Betts as "the original 'ginger kid' of Saskatchewan athletics", one of the "live wires" of the province, and "a hustler ... who gets results [with] few equals" however I prefer ALT0. I personally find the most interesting part of ALT2a quote is the 'ginger kid' and live wires so I would also approve of cutting this hook a bit shorter. I also agree with Reidgreg that you should nominate this for GA, as I have always encouraged . HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:39, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
        Thanks, Hickory! I thought the quotes were quite vivid but that my ALTs might suffer from style clutter. I went ahead and put in a shortened version as you suggested (MOS:PMC should allow: wires → wire). They all seem interesting to me, so I leave choice to the two of you and the promoter. Oh, please consider listing this article at WP:CAN10K. Happy editing! – Reidgreg (talk) 13:14, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
        I have no interest in being part of an article drive or going through the good article process. Please stop mentioning these to me. Flibirigit (talk) 15:12, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
        . HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2021 (UTC)