Talk:Draining law

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Untitled[edit]

The previous version of this article, old version 5/25/2005, had a tremendous amount of material from wikisource BY Bart Brinckman but NOT ABOUT him. I chopped it. It might be useful in an article on a law referred to in Flanders as the "dry up" law. RJFJR July 2, 2005 01:24 (UTC)

The idea was rather to create an article about the Belgian "dry up" law. So I reverted the article and changed its name. Meanwhile I reread the article. --Jvb – April 3, 2006

POV-check[edit]

The discussion below corresponds to the following historical version (04/13/2006) of the “dry up” law --Jvb – May 15, 2006

"But who precisely is this character, Claude Eerdekens?"
"In such an atmosphere, then, the Belgian establishment is admitting inviting foreign immigrants - mainly French-speaking Moroccans - to come to Belgium and apply for citizenship. The policy-aim is unambiguous: to change the ethnic balance and the spoken tongue away from Dutch in Brussels."
"But Eerdekens made a basic mistake in this assertion. People are not stupid."
"In that perspective can be noticed and understood the racial politics of the Walloon power elite and, therefore, the evil consistency with which they label all Flemish resistance “racism”."
Above just a few quotes from the article. You can hardly call this a neutral text on the "dry up"-law, let alone an encylopaedic one.--LucVerhelst 21:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning your quotes from this Wikipedia article. Compare with this reference article from De Standaard quality newspaper. Two excerpts:

“ …de frustraties en afweer bij autochtone bevolkingsgroepen die met immigratie geconfronteerd worden, nader onderzoek verdient.”

and

“ En dan nog maakt een immigrant met wat twijfelachtige geloofsbrieven veel meer kans naarmate zijn dossier bij een Ecolo'er dan wel bij een VLD'er terechtkomt.

Op 9 februari, in Le Matin, beriep de voorzitter van de commissie Claude Eerdekens er zich onomwonden op dat de procedure ,,heel veel doet voor de verfransing van Brussel”.

Het zegt misschien niet alles, wel iets over de manier waarop in dit land met immigratie wordt omgesprongen.

Be after the differences between the English and the Standard Dutch! You are missing the obvious. --Jvb – April 14, 2006

To pick one : "Op 9 februari, in Le Matin, beriep de voorzitter van de commissie Claude Eerdekens er zich onomwonden op dat de procedure "heel veel doet voor de verfransing van Brussel"." (On 9 February, in Le Matin, commission chairman Claude Eerdekens said straight up that the procedure "does a lot for the french-ification of Brussels".")

You can't base on this quote the assertion that there is an unambiguous policy aim to shift the ethnic balance in Brussels.

Let's try and write an encyclopaedic article, shall we ? --LucVerhelst 08:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But you write it yourself: “the procedure does a lot for the frenchification of Brussels". Certainly it is in the procedure that the policy is written down. And the other reference (in English) even is more explicit:- Claude Eerdekens, the parliamentary leader of the Parti Socialiste declared in Parliament that 99% of the immigrants in Brussels—historically a Dutch-speaking town—filed their naturalisation papers in French. "We do more to turn Brussels into a Francophone city than the Flemings can ever do to prevent it," he boasted. --Jvb – April 14, 2006

Yes, but that is still a long way from an "unambiguous policy aim to shift the ethnic balance in Brussels".--LucVerhelst 10:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After all, yes. It should be seen in context: the voting of the Belgian quick naturalisation law (the fast Belgian law). Afterwards Eerdekens was reproached for it in full and public parliamentary session, see the protocol (in Dutch and French), but didn’t deny. --Jvb – April 14, 2006

Cites needed[edit]

To User:LucVerhelst: You added, For the purpose of this law, those parties are considered undemocratic "that, by their own effort or by the effort of their components, lists, candidates or elected officials, clearly and with several similar signs, show that they are hostile towards the rights and freedoms guaranteed under the European Convention on Human Rights." This is why in French, the law is called "law to cut funding to anti-freedom parties."

Can you provide the proper citations for these? Aplomado ^talk 17:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Aplomado ^talk 18:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removing "disputed" tag[edit]

Due to the extensive rewrites, I'm removing the tag. If someone still feels that the article is still POV, feel free to re-tag the article and state your reasoning here so it can be fixed. Aplomado ^talk 17:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vote for Deletion[edit]

See discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Belgian "dry up" law --Jvb – May 15, 2006

Sorry I apparently removed the tag too soon. But if the nominator delists, then isn't the discussion closed? 1652186 17:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but wait until the administrator officially closes the discussion. Aplomado ^talk 18:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jvb's ramblings[edit]

I removed Jvb's ramblings about Claude Eerdekens and the francophone conspiracy. On Wikipedia, we're trying to create condensed, well-informed, representative summaries, not rambling opinion pieces. --LucVerhelst 10:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have the possibility to discuss every line of my Other facts and allegations. --Jvb – May 19, 2006

No thank you. Wikipedia is for encyclopaedic articles, not for political discussions. --LucVerhelst 10:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that part of the addition was unencyclopedic, I feel that the referenced relevant facts have the right to be included. Of course it will take a lot of discussion to determine what qualifies as such, but deleting everything is no solution either. 1652186 10:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True. Feel free to propose an encyclopaedic text. --LucVerhelst 10:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

I think this article should be renamed, 'The Belgian "dry up" law' is not a good name for an article on the English wikipedia. I think something like 'Law to cut funding for liberticidal parties' would be better.--Ganchelkas 14:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

xxxx How about renaming the article to "Draining Law (Belgium)" in order to indicate this is a specific article that relates to a specific country only. Khnassmacher (talk) 06:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Current state?[edit]

I think the article is confusing. It states: "At the moment the law would in particular be used against the right-wing Flemish party Vlaams Belang." This seems to suggest that this is currently not a valid law. But it is also stated that the las was approved and signed. So, is this law effective now? If yes, is it applied against "Vlaams Belang" ? 95.89.101.192 (talk) 14:51, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]