Talk:Pope Francis and LGBT topics

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2023 Cardinal dubia[edit]

The pope responded to 5 cardinals' dubia in recent days. The 2nd dubium is about blessing of same-sex couples and is extremely discussed in Catholic circles. It should be added here, however, I don't think my English skills can accommodate this task. The response to the dubia is here: https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2023-10/pope-francis-responds-to-dubia-of-five-cardinals.html --Pan Někdo (talk) 11:29, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of supposedly heard secondhand statements that a source heard from the grapevine[edit]

This edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pope_Francis_and_LGBT_topics&diff=1192914315&oldid=1192910801 should be removed. The statement Pope Francis allegedly uttered during a "private conversation" that the "source" couldn't have possibly heard and is most likely told by someone who mentioned it should not be considered reliable content in the articles. The Vatican and Pope Francis have not corroborated this statement and have outwardly denied it, and is only supported by other sources that quote the original article. This has WP:rumor written all over it as well as WP:Notscandal. 216.164.254.3 (talk) 11:09, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. The conversation has been reported in multiple reliable Catholic and secular sources, and the current wording sufficiently suggests that the conversation has been merely reported, not confirmed. See the cited sources for further details. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 13:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article reorganisation proposal[edit]

COMPLETED
Thank you!! I have now reorganised and rewritten the article. I revisited and reformatted the sources previously included, and took away or substituted some that were no longer working. I relegated to See also a few paragraphs e.g. on the Synod on the Family that I thought weren't directly connected to Pope Francis; there should otherwise be no loss of content. I added some comments/incidents not included previously in the article. Because I edit visually, I've probably made quite a few spelling mistakes that I'd be grateful for a second eye over. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 16:22, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'd like to suggest a reorganisation of the article. As it reads, I think the article organisation is somewhat messy, organised both by chronology (Buenos Aires vs Pope) and theme (same-sex unions, etc.), and that similar comments are reported across different sections means that the article struggles to provide relative weight or thematic coherence across the topic. The fairly-long lead section consequently struggles too, and I think violates WP:PROPORTION. This is how I suggest that the article's sections be reorganised, with reference to content currently included:

  • Public statements on LGBT people
    • Include 2013, 2018 comments, Jordi Evole comments, May 2022 responses to James Martin, and Amoris Laetitia (The "who am I to judge?" comment may warrant a subsection.)
  • Teachings on homosexuality
    • Include 27 August 2018 press release, January 2023 comments on unjust laws, February 2023 comments on Africa and Asia criminalisation
  • Same-sex couples, unions, and marriages
    • Subsections on civil unions (including as Archbishop of Buenos Aires), comments on same-sex marriages, and Fiducia Supplicans
    • Include 2014 synod on the family
  • Transgender issues and gender theory
  • Meetings with LGBT people and supporters
    • Include Kim Davis, blessing of gay couple in July 2015, Marcelo Márquez and Andrés Albertsen, Juan Carlos Cruz, Stephen K. Amos, 2020 meeting of 40 Italian parents
  • Gay clergy
    • Include Vatican gay lobby comments

No content would necessarily need changing, though I suspect that some episodes could be summarised more succinctly, especially meetings with LGBT people and supporters.

Because this would be a significant reorganisation on a sensitive article, I wanted to pursue some talk page consensus before doing a WP:BOLD. Thanks! IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 14:09, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly like your proposal. I would place "gay clergy" above "meetings", but that's a quibble. Good organization and clear headings are likely to invite more contributions, as well. Rutsq (talk) 21:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pope_Francis_and_LGBT_topics&oldid=1204674086"