Talk:Mzungu

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 15:48, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

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Muzungu → Mzungu — The context of the article is Swahili. Swahili name is "Mzungu" and not "Muzungu" as used in other Bantu languages. ScottPAnderson (talk) 08:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Meaning disputed

when i visited eastern africa Muzungu, was as is said used to describe white person, but i was also lead to belive that it was "white person who walks around in circles" with the pretence that Africans belived that all white people looked that same, and that i was only a few white people walking around, rather than many different white people. At first i was unaware that some people were using it as a derogatory term, and i found most of the time that it was just a name that tourists were descirbed by.

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Actually "mzungu" or "muzungu" means a "white" person, but not a "western" person. Chinese and Japanese people are "mzungu" too. It is only the skin color that matters, not the culture. This is what I learned in Kenya and Tanzania, but it is very hard to find an official source for this to make the changes to the article? What do you think?

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In fact "mzungu" is applied to western "black" people as well as "white" people. It isn't a reference to skin tone except by extension. The crazy mzungu are all obsessed with skin colour ever since the days of the transatlantic slave trade. What is wrong with them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.191.118 (talk) 13:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

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The Chinese are not "Mzungu/Wazungu"; they are "Mchina/Wachina" - pronounced Mmmm-cheena/Wer-cheena in English.

Common use for "Mzungu" is to primarily describe western caucasians (irrespective of Nationality) - but not because of their skin tone or the "white" color-code. It's much more complicated. African americans are simply called "Muamerica" (i.e. Americans) or in very remote areas, Mwafrika Mzungu as soon as he/she speaks. A westernized African can be called a Mzungu (without the Mwafrika prefix) by close friends, especially if there's a western accent in speech). In such instances (and only in such instances) the term Mzungu becomes somewhat derogatory - its purpose being to mock the African for pretending to be something he/she isn't. ScottPAnderson (talk) 14:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

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This article overgeneralizes the use of the term.

East Africa and the Bantu languages that use the term mzungu cover a large number of ethnicities, nations and tribal affiliations. Depending on the region, mzungu most certain can and does refer to anyone who is not African. This is particularly true for most of Francophone east Africa. For example, in the Kivus, the eastern Congo, Rwanda and Burundi, an east Asian WILL be called mzungu chinois. Upon correction as to the nationality, they will be referred to as mzungu plus the national modifier. Ex: mzungu japonaise or mzungu singapolais.

This is however, NOT true of most of Anglophone east Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.216.57 (talk) 21:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

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Is the use of 'Caucasian' appropriate as it is an outdated term with no cultural, historical, ethnological, or scientific basis; it stems from Scientific Racism classifications of people: non of the other categories from the theory that spawned this name are used because of the outdated, racist, and unscientific context- its only used in the USA as a racial classification in any mainstream capacity. White people are not from the Caucasus. A more appropriate term may be White or White European, or 'of White European Descent' (to avoid confusion excluding White Australians and Americans etc). Jackass cooper (talk) 15:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Racism?

Including "Citation needed" tags for Swahili vocabulary is racist - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language don't have cited vocabulary. Quark1005 (talk) 16:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

No. Requesting for citations is not racist. Wikipedia requires verifiable material and the article was not referenced at all. Anyway I have replaced the tags with the necessary citations. ThanksScottPAnderson (talk) 18:42, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

"Citation needed" tags for Swahili vocabulary is racist — that's a good one, and imho the comment should be preserved in a prominent place to illustrate much of what is wrong with Wikipedia. Or just because it's funny. "I am black, How dare you ask me for a reference, racist!" I am not sure some people even realize they are doing this any more. --dab (𒁳) 08:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Swahili stem '-zungumza'

Great article & great discussion here! Also in view of the fact that the vast majority of native Swahili speakers out there don't know about the etymology of the term 'Mzungu'.

Btw, have you ever noticed the similarity with the Swahili stem '-zungumza'? Hence, the name 'wazungumza' could have been given to people talking a lot--which might have been a distinguishing characteristic of the early Indian Ocean traders and colonialists... Just saying. MFX (talk) 14:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)