Talk:LeBarón and Langford families massacre

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Title[edit]

Why is "City" in the title? The event was nowhere near Mexico City. Schazjmd (talk) 15:27, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Names of victims[edit]

  • Support – Since this debate comes up in all similar articles ... I support keeping the victim names in this article. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:15, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exclude due to the names not being useful info for over 99% of readers. Jim Michael (talk) 20:15, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – for search engine optimalision - eg for those seeking info about deaths of indivs by their name(s)--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:27, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Of note. Loksmythe (talk) 20:49, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

expert opinion Re possible motive[edit]

WSJ[1]

"...a top Mexican general said he believed La Linea might have sent gunmen to stop Los Salazars from entering the neighboring state of Chihuahua. He said he didn’t believe the families were the intended target."

--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:02, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

use of both ' langford ' and ' lebaron ' to describe victimized community members in title ?[edit]

citations:

  1. newyorktimes[2]
  2. eluniversal[3]
  3. dailybeast[4]
  4. cnnmexico[5]
  5. stgeorgeutahnews[6]
  6. kutvsaltlake[7]
  7. cronkitenews(local)[8]
  8. arizrepublic[9]
  9. voa[10]
  10. lasvegasreviewjournal[11]
  11. slate[12]
  12. reuters[13]
    --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 20:31, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LeBaron and Langford families massacre page[edit]

Hodgson's secret garden: I appreciate the closer to the truth change of the title...there are other inaccuracies...I tried changing them before but I'm not exactly a Wikipedia expert...I am a resident of LaMora and can go through detail by detail with you what is and is not accurate. Would you be willing to work with me to make sure the the story is told truthfully? Please and thank you Klm131992 (talk) 22:54, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 23:38, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The American-Mexican Langford family's founding of 1909 Colonia San Jose and 1930s rancho La Morita in Sonora[edit]

1) Getty Images[14]: "Aerial view of La Morita and the river Bavispe near the site of the official visit of Andrés Manuel López Obrador, President of Mexico to La Morita on January 11, 2019 in Bavispe, Mexico. Obrador will meet with Lebaron and Langford families[...]."

2) 'El color de las amapas: Los Mormones en Sonora' ("The Color of the Amapas: The Mormons in Sonora") June 5, 2017, Ignacio Lagarda Lagarda[15]

"En 1909, se planeó construir esta nueva colonia sobre las márgenes del Río Batepito, localizada a quince kilómetros al Noreste de Morelos, su nombre: San José. El proyecto comenzó a desarrollarse muy en serio y varios colonos, encabezados por la familia Langford, alistaron sus bestias y cabalgaron río arriba para concretar la nueva idea. Ésta no tuvo tiempo de consolidarse ya que fue abruptamente interrumpida por el movimiento revolucionario de 1910."
("In 1909, it was planned to build this new colony on the banks of the Batepito River, located fifteen kilometers northeast of Morelos, its name: San José. The project began to develop in earnest and several settlers, led by the Langford family, mustered their beasts and rode up the river to realize the new idea. This did not have time to consolidate as it was abruptly interrupted by the revolutionary movement of 1910.")

...

"En los años treinta, la familia Langford decidió fundar una nueva comunidad en el río Bavispe, aguas arriba de Oaxaca, a unos seis kilómetros de San Miguelito, al pié del cerro Mesa el Malpaís, en el municipio de Bavispe, con el nombre de La Morita. En 1990, la Morita tenía 58 habitantes, el AÑO 2000, 102 habitantes y el 2010; 218 habitantes. Actualmente el pueblo cuenta con alrededor de 50 casas, lo que hace suponer que tendrá unos 300 habitantes. Los mormones en La Morita se dedican a la agricultura, cultivan nogal (nueces), forraje, crían borregos, árboles frutales, cría de ganado, explotan minas, hacen trabajo de carpintería de alta calidad y se emplean y tienen negocios en USA"
("In the 1930s, the Langford family decided to found a new community on the Bavispe River, upstream from Oaxaca, about six kilometers from San Miguelito, at the foot of the Mesa el Malpaís hill, in the municipality of Bavispe, with the name of La Morita. In 1990, La Morita had 58 inhabitants, in 2000, 102 inhabitants and in 2010; 218 inhabitants. Currently the town has about 50 houses, which suggests that it will have about 300 inhabitants. Mormons in La Morita are engaged in agriculture, growing walnuts, fodder, raising sheep, fruit trees, raising cattle, operating mines, doing high-quality carpentry work, and are employed and do business in the USA."

3) (22mar1894) Deseret Weekly (p. 552)[16]--"James H. Langford, though not present at the metting, was set apart [by LDS apostle Brigham Young Jr] as second counselor [to George C. Williams, in the bishopric of the LDS (Colonia) Oaxaca Ward]."

4) "A Bit of my Life" by Ella Langford Snell[17]

"Father [James Harvey Langford (1861-1922)] also ran a store in Oaxaca. It was a co-op: Haynie, Rancher & Langford. Annis clerked in the store because she had learned to speak Spanish and Father had more Mexicans for customers than anybody else. The Haymores put in a store too, but the Mexicans wouldn't go to their store because the Haymores wouldn't give them any credit. Father never turned them down when they were in need. He was good to the Mexicans and they were good to him. The Gabliandos were one of the Mexican families, and they fell in love with our home and were the ones father traded property with. Besides the 500 acres in San Jose, there was a great big home (7 rooms) with a grainery right in the center. There were 4 rooms on the north side and 3 larger rooms on the other side. [...] We moved there in 1908 when Vera was 2[.... ]Father left the lovely bedroom set that we had for the Gabliandos. Senora Gabliando was a beautiful Spanish girl. They had no children of their own, but had adopted an Indian girl. She had fallen in love with the bedroom set, so father left it for her. We lived in San Jose from 1908 to 1912. [... ... ...] At that time her [Aunt Lilly's] father was freighting in Panaca, Nevada, and decided to take her along to see if the warm climate would help her get well sooner. And that was where she met my father. Mother was only 16 when they met and Father was 5 years older. When she was 18, he went to her father and asked if he could marry her. Her father said he had an older daughter who should be married and suggested he marry them both. At that time it was a principle of the church and of course neither would object. Mother never spoke against Aunt Lilly, and for years nobody knew that Aunt Lilly had been married to Father first. Aunt Lilly had chances to get married, but it was to older men who already had wives. It was a ruling in the temple for the oldest to be married first. Father always treat."

5) Barney T. Burns and Thomas H. Naylor, "Colonia Morelos: A Short History of a Mormon Colony in Sonora, Mexico," (Smoke Signal 27: Tucson Westerners, Spring 1973)[18]

[p.148: T]he very concession they obtained from the Diaz government stipulated that 25% of the land in each foreign colony had to be reserved for purchase by Mexican citizens." [... p.152] "It appears plural marriages contracted prior to 1904 were not forsaken and fathers continued to support their mulitiple familes." [... p.160 (caption)]: Sonoran students in the 1912 graduating class from the Academy in Colonia Juarez, Chihuahua [the English-language LDS boarding school. Students that are pictured include Annice Langford, Ernest Langford, Blenda Langford, and Orlando Langford". [... p.173] "By 1909, the situation became so critical that this move was affected. Many of the Oaxaca families that had taken refuge in Colonia Morelos formed the nucleus of this movement. Several resident families of Morelos also decided to relocate. James Harvey Langford's two families who had still been residing in the diminished community at Colonia Oaxaca joined the new colonization effort. "The 'Rosavayo Tract' was secured by James Harvey Langford and Charles W. Lillywhite from the Gavilando family and provided the land necessary to support the new community. This tract was nearly equal in size to the Lillywhite's Carrizo Ranch, immediately to the south. Naming their new home 'San Jose,' the colonists cleared abundant and fertile farmlands. They constructed a series of small irrigation ditches that readily diverted the waters of the Rio Batepito. Within a short time they had completed a number of adobe homes and built a school with at least one full-time instructor. The new settlement of some 300 persons attained its own ward status. The land proved so productive that the townspeople began to make plans for the construction of their own flour mill. These plans were thwarted, however, by the Mexican Revolution."

6) The Progenitors and Descendants of Fielding Langford, Ida-Rose Langford Hall, editor[19]

Blenda Jackson Bulter [nee Langford]: "In 1888, James Harvey [Langford] moved Mary Lydia into Grass Valley, Utah. The law was beginning to make angry noises again polygamists in the area.[ ... ] James Harvey was taken to prison December 18, 1888, fined $300 and sentenced to six months in jail. [...] He was released from prison June 17, 1889. Shortly after he wrote a letter to [Delegate to US Congress from Utah Territory and LDS apostle] Elder George Q. Cannon asking what he should do. He did not want to give up either of his families. Elder Cannon advised him to take his families and move to Mexico. [...] They then made the long trek through Utah and New Mexico and settled in [Colonia] Oaxaca in northern Mexico. [... B]y 1908 he traded his home and store for a farm of 500 acres that was about 30 miles closer to the U.S. border in [Colonia] San Jose. [...] In August of 1912, the family received word from the [LDS ecclesiastical] stake president in Chihuahua to pack all their belongings and go back to the United States. The Mexican Revolution was going on and the revolutionaries had given all the Saints two days to get out of Mexico. [... H]e and four of his sons made several trips back into Mexico and got out nearly 2,000 bushels of wheat and other crops and livestock. It took them six months."

--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:30, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(1) where enroute (2) identity of victim families[edit]

  1. 29jul2020thedailybeast[20] - "Rhonita LeBarón and her four children were traveling back to Phoenix to pick up her husband at the airport after his month-long stay in North Dakota’s oil fields. Christina Marie Langford, the lawsuit states, was accompanying Rhonita “to the main highway” before heading to Colonia LeBaron in Chihuahua to meet her husband and five children while Dawna Ray Langford was planning to split off to attend a wedding." --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 17:03, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  2. 16jul2022KXANborderreport[21] - "Hochholter’s judgment includes $2 billion for the Langford family, $1.8 billion for the Miller-LeBaron family, $579.5 million for the Johnson family and $184.8 million for the Ray family." --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 17:21, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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