Talk:Final Fantasy Tactics/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Problems

"including Summoners, Black Mages, White Mages, Monks, Dragoons, and Thieves." The terms "White Mage" and "Dragoon" don't appear in this game. Perhaps you want to say, "including Summoners, Black Mages, Priests (White Mages), Monks, Lancers (Dragoons), and Thieves."

The term "Black Mage" doesn't appear either---it's "Wizard".

Improving this article

I'm looking for help in improving the format and contents of this particular article. I'm interested in adding more content, and having the content divided into sections (Gameplay, Story, etc), along with images and other media content. I have the content, but, unfortuneately, I do not have the writing skill, or the experience with Wiki software. I really want this wonderful game to also have a wonderful article, so please, reply.

-PiccoloNamek

I pledge to do whatever I can to assist in your expansion project! Your writing skill, if nothing else, is way better than whoever wrote the game's English script ... - Nat Krause 05:54, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for the reply! I didn't expect one to arrive so quickly. One of the things I'm looking for is help deciphering the story of the game. I have a fairly good understanding of it, but it's helpful to have all of the information in one place for study. I need this in order to write up a more detailed synposis of the storyline. This is the first thing I wanted to work on, since it's by far the most important feature of the game.

Oh, and when I say I can't write, I don't mean that I have poor grammar or anything, but that I have trouble with things like getting started, organization of content, etc. ;) Once I get going through, I can produce very large amounts of quality content. ;)

- PiccoloNamek

While this game undoubtedly deserves a thorough article, a detailed FAQ, Strategy Guide, Walk-thru isn't really appropriate for Wikipedia. Such things should instead be located at WikiBooks ([1]), one of our sister projects devoted to textbooks, game guides, recipes and other more. If you're not sure how to add info here and/or there, just go ahead and put it all here, even if badly formatted, and someone will clean up sooner or later. If you leave a note on my talk page (click on my name after this message, then "Discussion"), I'll move whatever to Wikibooks and do what I can here. Thanks! Tuf-Kat 06:19, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood, because I wasn't planning on writing anything like that. There are plenty of strategy guides at GameFaqs. I simply want this article to be more detailed and expansive, like the Final Fantasy X article, for example. It has a fairly detailed synopsis of the story line, each of the characters and their origins, all of the locations, weapons, summons, etc. This game deserves at least the same treatment, I think. And that is my goal. I can see how an misunderstanding can arise from that one line though. To clarify: I Do need an FAQ about the story like to help me write a reasonable synopsis of the storyline for this article. I Don't want to write an FAQ about the storyline here.PiccoloNamek 06:53, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

I don't really understand the distinction you're making, but that's okay. Just go ahead and add it here, and if something needs to be moved, myself or someone else will speak up. Tuf-Kat 07:43, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

The distinction is that an FAQ about the story would cover everything about it, revealing every detail, leaving nothing uncovered. A synopsis is more like a basic outline, giving you a general idea about what the story is about without going into every little detail. For example, take the FAQ from GameFaqs entitled, "Zodiac Brave Story". Not only does he cover every detail, but he even re-translated it himself. Now, compare that to the basic outline contained in say, the FFVI or the FFX pages over here. See the difference? It's detailed, without going overboard. I plan to upgrade the meager outline here and expand it. Reasonably, of course. It shouldn't be anything too different that what is found on some of the other Final Fantasy pages. Only better. ;)

What I was asking for is a good FFT story FAQ that I can use as reference while writing my outline. The Zodic Brave Story FAQ I mentioned is a good start, but it's very difficult to find specific information in it. Help from people who have played the game a lot is also appericiated. After all, every project here is a community project. :) And I do need help, because my biggest problem is simply not knowing how or where to start.PiccoloNamek 07:58, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

I think the expansion of the article is a great idea. A lot of information about this great game can and should be added. Feel free to add any information you think off, related to the game's plot or otherwise, and I will try to improve what I can. --xDCDx 20:01, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've been trying to think of a good basic plot summary, but the only thing I can think of is "The story begins shortly after the end of the 50 Years War". I've been going through the "Brave Story" menu of the game trying to get more information, but it's a slow process.PiccoloNamek 20:50, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately I finished the game a long time ago, and I can not think a better plot sumary either. The technical details about the game's style and gameplay could be expanded too. --xDCDx 01:01, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Of course they can! Don't think I forgot about them. :) In fact, it would probobly be easier to write about them first. I was thinking of something along the lines of:

-Differences from 'normal' Final Fantasy Gameplay
-Basic description of Battle Mechanics (There is precedent for this)
-Basic description of Job Class system

Any other ideas? I'm starting on it in notepad now. Once I feel it's presentable, I'll post it, and we can all have a go at refining it.

PiccoloNamek 07:16, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

How does this sound so far? Is to too technical?

http://catclub.dnip.net/piccolonamek/text/FFT.txt

PiccoloNamek 22:15, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Very nice start, keep it up. I think it is good enough to start adding it to the article, so merge it if you think it's apropriate to begin the improvement. --xDCDx 03:30, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I went ahead and added it. Feel free to edit at will if you think it will improve clarity or formatting. Or if you notice any embarrassing grammar errors. Hehe.PiccoloNamek 03:42, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

I plan on making a list of the job classes and including a small description of each. (There is precedent for something like this, for example, in the FFX article, all of the aeons are listed with long descriptions for each. I don't plan on doing anything that extensive.) Do you think this will be appropriate?PiccoloNamek 06:14, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

I have made some minor improvements to the article: I splitted it in sections and added some little bits of info. Go ahead with the job list, it would not do harm :). More plot details would be great too, with the appropiate spoiler warning. --xDCDx 14:26, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The plot is very intricate, but I'm trying! Also, I'd like to apologize for talking so much here. It must look very silly. I will try to be more efficient in the future.PiccoloNamek 15:58, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

It has occured to me that the plot may have been based on the Sengoku, and especially on the Onin_war, which was the beginning of the Sengoku. The two stories are very similar, with a war of succession, two sides forming around political leaders that were no part of the succession. Considering it, Ramza can be seen as the reunificator of Ivalice, a kind of Oda_Nobunaga + Toyotomi_Hideyoshi + Tokugawa_Ieyasu, and his death at the end of the game reflects the one of Nobunaga.--Bloodstained Agar 16:49, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But remember, Delita is the one who unified Ivalice, Ramza is the one who defeated Ultema/Altima/St. Ajora. Ramza lived, but Delita was killed by his own wife. Definitely one of the more depressing video game endings.PiccoloNamek 20:21, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure Ramza actually survived... anyway, well, yes I remember, so what ? I don't confuse the two of them, if is this what you infer. That Ramza was the hero of the Zodiac Brave Story doesn't change the fact that Delita is the reunificator of Ivalice, and the true hero that history will remember until Alazlam J. Durai releases his ancestors memories. There are two stories tied together : the Zodiac Brave Story and the Lion War, Ramza is the hero of the first, Delita the one of the second, which happens to be similar to the Onin War.--Bloodstained Agar 23:32, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
But you said Ramza was the reunificator, when he really wasn't. He was just being manipulated by delita like everybody else. Oh well. Whatever.PiccoloNamek 04:00, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
OOps, lapsus. Sorry. I meant Delita. I shouldn't write anything when I'm half assleep.--Bloodstained Agar 15:19, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've added a cursory plot analysis. Is this the right place for it? --Vaergoth 15:22, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

An analysis might fall under the category of "original research," but we'll see. ~ Hibana 21:47, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
Books have plot analysese, I don't see why not a game.

I think the game Flame Dragon 2 has a fair degree of common features with FFT. I've no idea if there was any cross-influence between the games, does anyone? Perhaps that game should be linked at the bottom of this article - similar games? Just an idea. (Therin83 01:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC))

An additional element of this game's presentation that I believe is worthy of mention is its theatricality, if for no other reason, for its innovation in using such a presentation. This is an element that is commonly overlooked by Western players due in part to the poor localization. A few examples are the design of the game's "sets," the method in which characters are stabbed and crumple to the ground, and, most notably, the dimming of character sprites as they walk "off stage." This is also lost in script translation as well due to incompatible nuances in the English language. I am aware of no other game, in the role-playing genre or not, that is presented in such a theatrical manner. ~ Seitori, 12:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Images

I've placed some images onto the page. Do they look appropriate? Is the description of the battle picture fitting? Edit at will.PiccoloNamek 09:01, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

I have repositioned the images, so they are more tuned with that is normally done in Wikipedia. --xDCDx 20:01, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think it looked nicer with the logo on the top. It was a good introduction to the article. Besides, who wants to stick with what is normally done? Where's the fun in that? Come now, which one of these really looks more attractive:

Having the logo on top, to me, exclaims "This article is about Final Fantasy Tactics!!", while the other one is little more than an image of the logo.

PiccoloNamek 20:23, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

First of all I don't mean to be harsh, just want the best for Wikipedia. In my opinion, the way I repositioned the logo makes the article look more professional. Innovation is important, but I think in Wikipedia, and in any other enciclopedia striving to improve, some cohesion in the structure between articles should be maintained. Browse other articles, of videogames or otherwise, practically never an image can be seen on top of the article, before the text. We don't want this to be a fan page about Final Fantasy Tactics, we want this to be a wonderful Final Fantasty Tactics article in a great enciclopedia. Any other opinions on this?

No! You're just being mean! ;) But seriously, I had better quit while I'm ahead because most people will probobly end of preferring your version.

As a side note, for the comparison you could just have linked the different versions from the history of the article, rather than uploading a new image. This way you would have avoided doing the work of capturing the images and using the precious wikipiedia's space and bandwidth (Wikipedia survives out of donations and its resources are always reaching its limits). Here are the links: PiccoloNamek's version xDCDx's version. Also, try to use the "Show Preview" button when edition a page: making all the changes in one edit saves space and bandwidth too.

The original comparison picture wasn't even on Wikipedia, but photobucket. But then photobucket started having problems. I guess since they're not anymore, I can switch it back.

Comparison PicturePiccoloNamek 07:15, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Again, I don't want to be mean and I am not lecturing you, your edits are very welcome, this is just my opinion and friendly advices :) --xDCDx 01:01, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Something interesting. I've posted polls on several of the bulliten boards I visit, and the majority of people seem the prefer the logo on top. I did not vote in any of the polls.PiccoloNamek 00:20, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

I do not want to be closed minded nor dictatorial, but maybe this people do not visit Wikipedia regularly and are not used to it, hence they can not see the cohesion between articles that is lost when placing the logo of the game on top. Again, this layour might be fine for a webpage dealing with the game, but I do not find it suitable for an article in a professional enciclopedia.
By the way, nice work with the game jobs section: --xDCDx 00:34, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The presentation of the article itself is more important than some vague overreaching concept like "cohesion between articles". Either way it's a moot point now, because the contents menu makes it look funny with the logo on top. And thank you.PiccoloNamek 01:12, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Characters

What do you think? Is it too much? It looks nice but I'm afraid it takes up too much space. Please give me a chance to fill in the white space before you pass final judgement.

If you like it, feel free to add or revise the descriptions, because they need it. (Most of them are taken from the game itself.) More detailed descriptions would also help to fill up the white space and make it look nicer. I tried to list what I thought were the foremost characters in the game, but feel free to remove some if you think they don't fit here.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/PiccoloNamek/Better.jpg

See? Like that. Much better. We can do it!

Perhaps there should also be a distinction between the playable and non playable characters as well.

PiccoloNamek 03:20, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

Hello there, I have repositioned and aligned the images of the characters, I think a better advantage of the space is taken now. Tell me what you think. --xDCDx 15:08, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Looking at the different versions of the page side by side, I can't see any difference. What browser do you use? PiccoloNamek 19:14, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I use Mozilla Firefox RC1, but I just tried the article in Explorer and I can see the changes I made. What I did was thumbnail the images, enlarge them a bit, and repositioned them in files of four. Try emptying the cache of your browser and reloading the article. --xDCDx 19:35, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I see now. I don't like it at all. It took a lot of time to properly align each character with it's description. Good thing I saved the original code. Once I find time to complete all of the character descriptions, I will see how it looks with the original format.PiccoloNamek 20:25, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Heh, it seems we never agree on image layout issues. Feel free to restore it with extended description, and let's see how it looks. You need not to worry about saving the code, you can revert to your version by clicking in the date link in the history of the article. --xDCDx 21:09, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, I know, but I have a habit is saving things that are important... just in case.PiccoloNamek 23:05, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Character graphics

IANAL, but the character graphics add little besides copyright concerns and extra space to this article. Thoughts? jdb ❋ (talk) 01:36, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think it's fair use. Besides, it's nice to know what the characters look like. Nobody else has said anything about it. Plus, it took me forever to get it to look right.PiccoloNamek 02:24, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Mozilla Vs Internet Explorer

When I get the article looking good in one browser, it looks bad in the other. It looks just fine in IE but rather jagged in Mozilla Firefox. I need some fine tuners to help me with this. Also, Cidolfas from FFCompendium was kind enough to let us use his character descriptions. You should all e-mail him and say thank you.PiccoloNamek 17:23, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Adding other characters

The Shrine Knights, (especially Vormav and Weigraf) play a big enough role to be added in I think. --Havermayer 20:25, 16 May 2005 (UTC)


I'm also thinking of adding an entry for Saint Ajora Glabados, but I can't find a good pictute of him/her. If anybody has one that's similar to the pictures already on the page, please let me know.PiccoloNamek 05:02, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think there's a single picture of Ajora. The only "appearance" he/she makes is at the end, when he's in Alma's body.--Havermayer 04:16, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Rarity

Final Fantasy Tactics was notorious for being one of the rarest, priciest, and most sought-after PSX games in existence

Uh, I don't think it was ever THAT rare. Certainly not to the levels of a number of other games. It seems a bit not-quite NPOV, a bit hyperbolic -- perhaps changed to "Before it was re-released under Sony's "Greatest Hits" label in 2001, it was highly sought after and went for prices exceeding $100 on Ebay and elsewhere. At the time of its reissue, it was the only game to be re-released under that label without meeting Sony's guidelines of breaking sales of 200,000 copies."

Anyone else agree or disagree with this wording? Melodia Chaconne 9 July 2005 18:35 (UTC)

I bought my copy at Sears I think, and this was maybe a year after it came out. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:03, 2005 July 17 (UTC)

  • I strongly disagree with this statement. I can go to any video game store locally (Your GameStops, your Game Crazys, et cetera) and find at least ten copies unopened. Rockhound 21:44, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
You can now, Rockhound. Reread the statement. "Before it was re-released..." {Empahsis added}. Believe me, I tried in vain to find a copy I could afford before the re-release. --Suttkus 15:06, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Citation on this topic may be obtainable if a researcher also looks into the secondary sales patterns of other uncommon yet popular PlayStation games of the time period such as Xenogears, Suikoden II, and Intelligent Qube. ~ Seitori 12:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Bahamut Lagoon?

Does anyone have a cite for the factoid that Bahamut Lagoon was originally produced under the working title Final Fantasy Tactics? Because it seems like one of those things that should really be listed in our references section.... – Seancdaug 03:10, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Anyone? I still can't find a verifiable source for this factoid, and I'm seriously considering removing it unless someone can show me otherwise. – Seancdaug 22:36, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
As best I can recall, I got that information from Andrew Vestal via his Unofficial Squaresoft Homepage circa 1996 or '97. (The site folded in early '98.) The "UOSSHP" was arguably the most extensive Square website that ever was; Squaresoft themselves even hosted it for him at one point. I trust Andrew Vestal as a source completely. He's the same person who revealed Final Fantasy IX to the world almost a year before Square unveiled it for the first time, before Square had even made the final decision to name it "Final Fantasy IX". I can't insist that you trust me, an anonymous netizen. But I can assure you that the information comes from a reliable, trustworthy source. – Druff 00:20, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


I for one have never heard it before, and would be all for removeing it. Melodia Chaconne 11:49, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I second the above nomination to remove this information unless it can be definatively cited. 65.27.190.57 21:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Difficulty

Why no mention of this game's high level of difficulty. It turned myself and several other off of this game despite its good features. DirectorStratton 15:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

We can't, because difficulty is subjective. I had no problems at all beating the game. Wikipedia articles should strive to remain objective. What was hard for you was easy for a lot of people, and we can't make a generalized statement such as "This game is difficult", or what have you. PiccoloNamek 18:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Precisely. If one spends enough time on Mandalia Plains, all classes can be unlocked, allowing for some rather powerful, if creative, characters. I myself had several Ninja with Equip Sword long before I was able to buy Ninja gear. So, I agree with the above statement. 65.27.190.57 21:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I found it farely easy. The final boss was just the easiest fight of the game. As the game advances and you can train more, it becomes a lot easier. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.119.231.215 (talk • contribs) .

The games not all that difficult compared to its predesescors. FF1 for example (not for the gameboy, for the nes) recquired one to do several build up battles in order to win. This game just recquires a few and a bit of planning on what jobs to be and effective JP grinding.

While PiccoloNamek is correct on the concept of subjectivity, I submit that the game's steep learning curve be mentioned. It could easily take a user an hour or longer to proceed through the in-game tutorial. This could even be indirectly referenced, as several reviews mention the game's difficulty/learning curve. ~ Seitori 12:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I found a couple of battles really insanely hard, until I figured the right way to fight those particular battles. It was especially annoying to have to sit through a cutscene and be told to protect someone who dies in the first round of combat before i could even act. =) But I figured out some tricks and the game is quite easy. I usually put my team on autopilot to stride through random fights. -- Sy / (talk) 17:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Moving information to a Wikibook?

The gameplay section is a bit too lengthly. I suggest moving some of it into a Wikibook, as it fits better there than in the Wikipedia article. -- ReyBrujo 06:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


French Site

Please stop linking to a French FFT website. This is not Wikipedia FR, it is Wikipedia EN. Further additions of this site may warrant action. Rockhound 14:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


Challenges

Perhaps mention should be made of the challenges like SCC and SSCC -- that's a big appeal of this game for some people (the SCC is trying to beat the game with 5 units that can only be one job and use only skills from that job, the SSCC is the same thing but with only Ramza) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.79.65.118 (talk • contribs) .

  • boggle* -- Sy / (talk) 17:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XIII spinoff

Just a rumor right now, but according to [2], there is going to be another Final Fantasy XIII spinoff for the Nintendo DS, which will also be a new Tactics game. I think it warrants mention? - A Link to the Past (talk) 09:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Possibly...... but either in the summary (at the beginning) or at the very end.... I should think.
--Antelope In Search Of Truth 20:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
As a rumor, I can't see that it does deserve a mention. Rumors are seldom encyclopedic. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 22:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I read it on an unknown site(I can't remember the address, sorry) but it says that it also takes place on Ivalice. So far, that is the only connection of the series.Pathbinder 07:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Contradicting Critisim

The critism section at the end of the article states it was well accepted and slowly was critized as time went on, and in the same paragraph states that the game has aged well and all this stuff on how great it is still today...might wanna check it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.38.199.83 (talk • contribs) .

You can add a {{contradict}} tag to the article for some other editor to review. -- ReyBrujo 04:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

too much personal opinion is used towards certain elements of the game,such as ninja is the best class,and geomancer is useless, this offsets the facts,in that ones opinion may differ a newcomer to the game

the reference used to state that FFXII takes place after FFT is mistaken. FFXII is modeled after the roman empire while FFT is modeled in the middle ages, and follows a similar placement in time. In Final Fantasy Tactics, there are points that heavily imply the timeline of FFXII existed prior to the game. Agrias Oaks is quoted saying that " I hear a 'lost civilization' is hidden under Goug.... When St. Ajora was alive, airships were in the sky, and human robots in town. But time passed, technology was lost, and no one knows if it ever really existed." I believe Alexander O. Smith translated part of it as "when airships plied the sky" in the english FFXII trailer. There are also floating lost continents in FFT, which are part of the map in FFXII.

I don’t think that’s accurate I read in several magazines that ff 12 takes place several hundred years after tactics………… and that the technology had been reclaimed or something of the sort. I think the tv show x play said the same thing although they are not the best source of accurate information. 207.200.116.133 04:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Sources, such as gamespot.com are readily saying that Final Fantasy XII takes place after Final Fantasy Tactics. Personally, I am not believing that one bit, since I understood in FFT that the age of airships have long since past, which is why the graveyard of airships in murond death city exists. as in, FFXII was the golden age of airships, and FFT takes place long after that age has passed. even with the sources saying otherwise, i continue to live with my own beliefs. 私はBluerfnです 17:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

To User:NoahK, some parts of this sentence - Final Fantasy XII also takes place in Ivalice and features the same races found in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. - is not related to Final Fantasy Tactics, but rather to FFTA. Why? The first phrase, Final Fantasy XII also takes place in Ivalice does relate with both games taking place in Ivalice, but mentioning that it features the same races found in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. why? we are talking about Final Fantasy Tactics, not Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. i'll redo the edit. 私はBluerfnです 17:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


I want to say of course FFT came after FFXII since in FFT it says that moogles have been extinct for quite a while... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maximuspower (talk • contribs).

Job classes

I notice that much of the text describing the jobs in this section is taken directly from the game, and certain passages ("Fine warriors, bold and brave, with etiquette", for example) don't read very well. Perhaps a few should be re-written, or is it more accurate to use the source text for describing them? Willpower 08:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Recquirements

I just noticed a lot of the recquirements for the higher level job classes are missing. Is this to avoid spoilers or just lack of information? I added the ones I knew off the top of my head. Rmove if unwanted.

I'm pretty sure they weren't there because they weren't especially important to the article. Remember, this is an encyclopedia entry, not a strategy guide. I'm going to remove them. Willpower 01:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

FFTA2: The Sealed Grimoire

I removed the section about Final Fantasy Tactics A2 Fūketsu no Grimoire because it's obviously a direct sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and not FFT. Firstly, there was nothing about any grimoires at all in FFT, and what else cold the A in A2 stand for?

Also, like it's been said at the FFTA2: TSG talk page, there is nothing about it being on Nintendo DS. So far the platform is unspecified, although I'd say it's the most likely, seeing as the GBA is almost done with. Choogle 09:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


This article from RPGamer states that despite the name, A2 is not related to FFTA, listing Games Are Fun (who have their source as a magazine scan at this article) as their source despite the fact at the actual article doesn't say that and implies the opposite... I don't read Japanese myself so I can't verify the information either way, but I think we should look into it further than just saying that A2 means its related to Tactics Advance instead of Tactics, since it wouldn't be the first misleading title in video game history (or even Final Fantasy history, since Tactics Advance was forever implied as a GBA port of Tactics...)

FFT: The Lion War

Shouldn't this game be getting its own article by now? FFTA2 got its own article and the game was only a footnote on the magazine scan the info for this game came from. Also: Should information that has surfaced from the FFT:TLW trailer be used to confirm or infirm alleged translation inaccuracies? As such, a formal request to branch off a new article is now in effect. Please consider it. LanceHeart 06:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

To clarify for those who haven't seen it yet, the article for Final Fantasy Tactics Shishi Sensō is up and running. Nall 22:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, I jumped the gun and created it.LanceHeart 05:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Chiodos cover

i dont know if anyone else has made this connection but the cover of the Chiodos album All's Well That Ends Well (album) bears a striking similarity to the mime class of fft (boy with a bird head, girl with a mouse-ish head). its only a theory, but if anyone finds any info, i think it should be noted. Evaunit666 01:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

No mention of the music

There's not even a single line about the music. I can't see it being a good article without something as important as that at least being mentioned -- especially since FFT's OST has a general positive reception. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 13:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Great, a helpful response! I'll add it in right away. Bluerです。 なにか? 13:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Or the game classes system. FFT has a classes system similar to D&D but it has some classes of its own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.45.86.16 (talk) 14:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Good Article Nomination 14 April 2007 - Fail

Report Card

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

References

There are two reasons why this article fails to be a Good Article. The main reason is that the vast majority of the article is unreferenced. There are many statements which are not verifiable, and the article borders on original research. Below are a few example sentences from the article which should be referenced. The statements may be 100% true, but there is no way to verify their accuracy without references. This is not a complete list of sentences that need to be referenced:

  • "It was published in Japan by Square and in North America by Sony Computer Entertainment America. It was never released in Europe."
  • "This is due, in part, to the presence of former Quest staff members in its development crew, including director Yasumi Matsuno, character designer Akihiko Yoshida, art director Hiroshi Minagawa and composer Hitoshi Sakimoto, all of whom had left Quest to work with Square."
  • "It has been announced that a reworked version of Final Fantasy Tactics with widescreen support, updated graphics, new jobs, and cel-shaded FMV will appear on the PlayStation Portable as Final Fantasy Tactics Shishi Sensō, as part of Square Enix's new Ivalice Alliance project."
  • "However, one major flaw was its poor localization, which included many mistranslations rendering an 'already complex plot nearly incomprehensible'".

Also, the last reference in the article's reference list is not formatted correctly.

  • Yeah, this shouldn't have been nominated quite yet. I have the tactics manual, so I can take care of the gameplay section. I don't think we should really change the plot section much for GA, since it covers the main points (but if we go to FA, we'll need to expand it to attain the comprehensiveness standard). — Deckiller 17:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Images

Two of the three images in the article do not have a fair use rationale. A fair use rationale similar to the one used for "BattleGrid.jpg" should be added before renomination.

Snottywong 16:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Response

Thank you, Snottywong. We'll see what we can do, tackling the references and verifiability, and return to nominate it for GA again. Thanks again. Bluerです。 なにか? 16:26, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, the GA nom may have been a little hasty. I will try to help as much as I can before the next nom. Axem Titanium 16:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
All the images have their fair-use rationale placed, hopefully, and the story is verifiable with all the dialog references. Bluerです。 なにか? 05:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Merging?

Oppose: Hey, why is there a Final Fantasy III (Nintendo DS) article when we have a Final Fantasy III article already? And before you make any hasty mergedit, consider that I'm pouring my effort to make the article noteworthy. Give it a few months, it's not even out yet. Merging won't help the situation for the article considering it is not even in GA status yet. Bluerです。 なにか? 13:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

FFIII DS is a remake, it's brand new game with a new engine and new graphics and battle system, except it reuses the same story as the original game. FFT:SS is just a port with a few bonuses. Kariteh 13:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Give it some time. Soon, there's a soundtrack out for it. Who knows what other features the developers might bring? Besides, it'll flow like the FFIIIDS article; "Development", "Gameplay" (did you see the official website?), "Changes and addition", "Audio", and most importantly "Reception and criticism", that could take up the space in this article. Bluerです。 なにか? 14:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Dawn of Souls has its own article because it can't be merged into FFI or FII: it's a compilation of both games. The Ivalice Alliance argument has no weight because of Finest Fantasy For Advance: the FFI to VI handheld ports are part of FFFA while their original versions are not, yet they don't have their separate articles. Kariteh 16:09, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

By that logic, it should be merged with Final Fantasy Origins. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 16:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that leaving both articles up, at least until Shishi senso is released, won't hurt anybody. While they are both essentially the same game, they would have different development and reception sections and obviously, the plot is being changed as well (I mean, Balthier's freaking in it). Just remember, Wikipedia is not perfect; the world will not end tomorrow-so you can still edit; and there is no deadline to improving the article. Axem Titanium 16:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
FFI&II DS: Good idea, I agree. I didn't thought about FF Origins. This will help improve these articles since they're rather empty as separate articles.
FFT: See you on May 10 then. Kariteh 16:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, not on May 10th. People have to play through the game and inform us non-Japanese people about what's new and how the appearance of Balthier, Luso, and the addition of storyline cutscenes affect the entire plot. If anything, we should consider merging this if the game doesn't get a North American or European release date by the time this year ends. LanceHeart 01:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

With that said and done, I think we should leave the merging issue for awhile and instead concentrate on bringing this lovely article to GA, people. That's the whole point anyway, get this article to GA, then we can rethink about merging. I'm thinking of rewriting the plot sections. Bluerです。 なにか? 11:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I hate to bring this up again, but considering the port has been out for a while and that it has an underwhelming amount of new content, it could easily be merged into this article with little effort, much in the same manner the Final Fantasy 4, 5 and 6 ports were incorporated into theirs. The PSP version of FFT is no more a remake than the PS1 and GBA versions of FF4 through 6. All the while striving to keep GA status, we can easily use the format from the previously stated articles and add the PSP port's information into this one. LanceHeart 12:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Altima's a chick

The article should use the feminine pronoun for her. Kariteh 16:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I have made a mistake! I thought I saw Ajora's name there (Ajora's a he). Be my guest and change it back :D . Bluerです。 なにか? 16:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, the article seems to claim that Altima was Ajora in the past. I don't think it's that clear in the game, we don't really know if Ajora was Altima "in disguise" all along or if Ajora was just Ultima's human host. I think we should leave the issue as vague as the game left it. Altima was definitely female, but who knows what and WHO Ajora was. Kariteh 16:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

GA

I think the FFT will be considered a good article self-nomination when it meets the good article critera. This nomination reminds me of the FFXII FA push. I will need some help with that. We have to cite references and/or sources (see WP:CITE). This article has this unreferenced tag: I will try to improve on the citations to match up with the GA status as explained above. I will have to use references from various sources (such as IGN, Gamespy, Gamespot and the FFT game guide from Brady Games). Good luck, everyone, and I like to say a quote from the Star Wars saga: "May the Force be with you, always". Anything else you want to add? I think a peer review would be considered as well. Sjones23 23:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm amused at your enthusiasm :D, but i had to remove the tag, we know it's there, thanks, and it clutters the talk page. I've started the GA push by rewriting the story section, which is as comprehensive as it gets (the story had a very, very elaborate plot) with all the possibly related dialogs placed in between. Good luck with finding sources for this ol' fella. Like I said, I'm concentrating on the plot section, so the characters or the setting comes next. Bluerです。 なにか? 05:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I posted some parts where references are imperative. The gameplay section in particular needs to be drawn from either in-game manual or product manual or reviews or interviews. Also the reception section can be expanded, there are lots more reviews for this game. Bluerです。 なにか? 09:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I'll still hold true to my promise of completely overhauling that gameplay section. — Deckiller 09:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I do have faith in you, Deck :D! I'm thinking of tackling the plot (character and setting) and reception sections - Bluerです。 なにか? 09:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I also have faith in you, Deck! Bluerfn and Deck, good luck! I will help out with you. If any of you have anything for me to work on, let me know. And I quote again from Star Wars: May the force be with you, always! Sjones23 22:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi once again. Think we can add references and/or sources for FFT? If you want to cite sources to the FFT game guide (Brady Games) and anything else (i.e IGN, Gamespot, Gamespy), go ahead. Thanks. This article needs a lot of work to become a GA. Sjones23 21:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wait, so far, I added only one source to an unreferenced statement. To make this article a nom for GA, we will add references and/or sources and fix up the issues. Deckiller, Bluerfn an everyone else, any citations to references and/or sources (e.g FFT's official game guide, IGN) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Sjones23 21:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

References

I added a reference and it is here. Any more references to throw in should be greatly appreciated. Sjones23 20:55, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

GA Nom

Nominated for GA status. — Deckiller 21:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone I know is doing me a favor and reviewing this article early. — Deckiller 21:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

GA

This article meets the GA criteria and I passed it. Some things you can look at for improvement are: making sure all citations go after punctuation, a good copy-edit, take a look at the reception section it feels too possitive, some criticism of the game would be ideal. Darthgriz98 21:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Merger of Character article into this article

The character page has little chance of being seriously referenced, so it would be better to bolster this article and add some more character detail in preparation for FA status. Judgesurreal777 01:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

There seems to be quite a bit of unreferenced information in the character bios. Not to mention, the shear amount of information in that article is too heavy for this one. Perhaps making summaries of the main characters of the game would suffice (Ramza, Delita, Alma, Ovelia). Of course, that would essentially mean using some of the information of the article, but it would have better form than just random names slapped into the current paragraphs in the article and would avoid having to sacrifice the biographies of at least 6 other minor characters.

LanceHeart 07:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh definitely, I mean only adding a little bit of the huge amount of information (fancruft) in the character article to this one. Judgesurreal777 16:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
FFT has a pretty large cast; anything more than just the main characters would clutter the article too much. Redxiv 01:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Characters that deserve mention in the mainpage would be Ramza, Delita and Ovelia. Other characters will be mentioned in one simple paragraph, and a link should point to a Characters of FFT page to explain about the other characters. In fact, decrufting the FFT character List is prudent. It should flow like FFXII's mainpage and its characters page, with in-game reference and the like. — Bluerです。 なにか? 02:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The cast of worth to mention characters in FFT is huge, merging the characters article here will really create an extremely cluttered article. Elegarth 14:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I agree, the character list has gotten overgrown and needs some trimming. Redxiv 05:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
If you guys remember, the character list USED to be on this page, but we moved it because it was getting too large. I vote to leave it where it is. Noah 17:18, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Noah. No need to merge the characters, especially given how many characters play a vital role in FFT. While the article could be much better sourced, that shouldn't be TOO difficult to do. Cheers, Lanky ○ Yell ○ 14:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I concur. As I said above, it does have a chance to be like FFVIII's character page. It only needs decrufting, trimming, and utmost dedication by editors. — Bluerです。 なにか? 14:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
That comes as a big shock to me, since it seems like there is currently no out of universe information on this page....What resources are there for this page? Judgesurreal777 22:52, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
It's interesting that the character list was redirected to this article (not merged, as no information whatsoever from the list was put in this article) unilaterally, when it's obvious that no consensus to do so was achieved here. 71.203.209.0 (talk) 22:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Merger of Soundtrack article into this article

Unlike most of the installments which have a "Music of FF..." article, FFT had only one simple soundtrack, no arranged album, EP, or singles. The FFT OST doesn't really need to have its own article, especially since it's unsourced and its section here is sourced, and is short. Kariteh 17:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea, it will improve this article.Judgesurreal777 22:57, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Would this article need the official OST tracklist? I'll get to it soon if it does, complete with track duration and composer. — Bluerで す。 19:05, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final fantasy tactics.jpg

Image:Final fantasy tactics.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

It's fixed, no worries. — Bluerで す。 12:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Unreliable sources!

I have removed some unreliable sources but the change was reverted. I would like to know why they qualify as reliable. One of them was notably a Tripod fanpage. Also, the page for the Game Informer review is missing in the reference, and there is no source for SoundtrackCentral even though it is quoted in the article. Thanks! FFXII International + Paul Rodgers (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Tripod fanpage sourced it from the Famitsu magazine - the closest to a reliable source. If a source is not given, there is a better practice than simply tagging it with fact tag and leaving it to someone else to find the source, especially when it can easily be found. We appreciate you being eager to edit, but please don't overdo it. — Blue。 16:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
BTW, there wasn't any dead link. It's just a misplaced citation. Edited. — Blue。 16:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge

I think Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics should be redirected here. The characters article has never managed to establish notability with concrete, significant creation and reception details. Furthermore, Final Fantasy Tactics is already a featured article and already explains what one needs to know about the topic in terms of encyclopedic information. For more specific information, the FF Wikia is already linked. Kariteh (talk) 10:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Disagree: It's been well established that lists of characters are appropriate for wikipedia. 75.148.25.169 (talk) 15:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
No, what's been established is that articles are appropriate if they comply with WP:N and WP:V among other stuff. Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics currently does not comply, and hasn't shown any potential for improvement over the years. Kariteh (talk) 15:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
To clarify, articles like Characters of Kingdom Hearts are appropriate due to their significant "Creation and influence", "Merchandise" and "Reception" sections. Articles like Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics can't attain the same level of real-work significance. Kariteh (talk) 15:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
It's inevitable. We lack real world content to support this article. But then again, what have we to merge with the main article? The topic should have been redirect ;) — Blue。 17:53, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
This is a no brainer; it has never been any good, tags in place for years and no improvement because there is no information to improve it with. Definite merge. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:56, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
List of characters are acceptable without having to prove notability as per WP:SPINOUT without having to prove notability. See also a discussion on the List of characters in Bully article. McJeff (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
As far as improving the article - give me a week to replay the game and refresh my memory and I'll make some bold changes to the thing. Including digging up some sources - there's bound to be something out there about at least Ramza. McJeff (talk) 02:51, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
If there is no notability, no other issue really matters, it shouldn't have its own article if there is no notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
If you can read Japanese McJeff perhaps you will manage to uncover some interesting design information about Ramza, who knows. People tried to find some in English for years and didn't succeed, though. Kariteh (talk) 21:38, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't speak any Japanese, but it should be possible to request assistance from a Japanese speaking Wikipedian. But at any rate, I suggest that Judge go ahead and AfD the article, because there's no point in working on one that's under threat. McJeff (talk) 23:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
No, if there really is some notability that justifies a whole article, fantastic. But you probably need more than one reference to sustain a whole article. But if that doesn't exist, perhaps we should merge it and add more detail and references to the characters section of the game article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:24, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Should Izlude Tingel be redirected here? On the one hand, it used to be an article, and it's unique in that there's not likely to be another person or thing with the name. On the other hand, it has no links to it, the character is non-notable, and Izlude isn't even mentioned in the article (a big minus towards redirect). Brought it up to test the waters. --Raijinili (talk) 19:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Improvements

I just wanted to give you a quick overview of the improvements I'm about to make and why I consider them necessary:

  • Delete last sentence in first paragraph of Reception: The fact that FF Tactics was re-released as a Greatest Hits title is mentioned in the section “Versions and re-releases”. In addition July 2001 was seven years ago and thus it is quite confusing to read this sentence as if it hadn’t happened yet.
  • Rephrasing of second sentence in first parapgraph of Versions and Rereleases: The original phrasing of the sentence was a bit awkward; the edit improves readability and comprehensibility.
  • Rephrasing of last paragraph in Legacy: The phrasing of this paragraph was confusing with the double mention of the FF XII release. In addition it should be noted that “FFT: War of the Lions” is also part of the newly formed Ivalice Alliance. Furthermore one of the links pointing to a citation (99) was dead, however, the necessary information could also be found in the other existing citation (98) and thus I removed this citation.

128.237.238.204 (talk) 22:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Citation was working during my edit so I left it in.128.237.238.204 (talk) 22:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Updated reference

Very nice article.

This reference is slightly inaccurate:

Number 50 Velius: Why, why is Virgo responding? You...can't be... Very nice! I didn't expect to meet you here! I thought it would take 100 years to find you! I never dreamed you were the one!Squaresoft. Final Fantasy Tactics. (Square Co.). PlayStation. (1997-06-20)

Velius is not the character who says this in Riovanes castle. At this point, Velius has been slain and Ramza is fighting Elmdor on the roof. This quote is made by Vormov, the only remaining Shrine Knight after the battle at Riovanes (His son Izlude and Weigraf a.k.a. Velius are both killed). It is at this point that he kidnaps Alma and proceeds with his plans to attempt to resurrect Altima. This happens in the room where Vormav transforms into Lucavi and slaughters multiple Riovanes knights, and his own son Izlude. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.75.252.2 (talk) 15:19, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 17:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Question

Where it says "[...] apparently resulting in Delita's death shortly after the end of the story." When I played the game (several times), I was always under the impression that Delita was just wounded here. He gets stabbed by someone who isn't very powerful, and Delita was a strong as a tank. We never see him die, and the reference for this quote does not indicate his death.Cylith (talk) 21:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty vague really, and the cause of MUCH discussion over the years among fans of the game. Probably best to look at what reliable sources say happen and use that (and even better if it can mention the vagueness). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:18, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Where is the character page?

We have articles for each episode of Scrubs but not a character page for FFT characters? Wow. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 21:35, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Howatto izu za pointo?

Why romanise the katakana? Why transliterate into katakana in the first place? What relevance has this little linguistic exercise in the first place? JIMp talk·cont 23:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Speculative original research regarding influences from the Catholic Church

Posting a publication by a game magazine that speculates about a game designer's influences does not prevent original research from being original research. Its speculative, holds no relevancy to the game itself, which is what the article is about. If we allow these edits then wiki articles would be filled with different theories and speculations backed up by sources and we don't need that. Thanks. 67.205.215.175

Please read WP:verifiability and wp:original research before you revert again. An "original research" is a claim made by Wikipedian user without reliable source. This means we don't limit ourselves from quoting research or speculation made by reliable source. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 23:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussion on VG Soundtracks

Hello, I wanted to let you know about this on going discussion, about whether soundtrack album covers should be included in the articles about the game's they are from. I know the outcome might also affect this page so I encourage you to join the discussion. (Floppydog66 (talk) 04:41, 25 November 2012 (UTC)) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Secondary box arts/soundtrack covers

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