Talk:Xifeng concentration camp

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Xifeng concentration camp has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 23, 2024. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Xifeng concentration camp appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 November 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the barracks at the Xifeng concentration camp were named for Confucian tenets such as righteousness and filial piety?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Xifeng concentration camp.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rjjiii talk 17:00, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that the barracks at the Xifeng concentration camp were named for Confucian tenets such as righteousness and filial piety?

Source: Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 137. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.

ALT1: ... that the Kuomintang drew from both Nazi and Soviet examples when establishing the Xifeng concentration camp? Source: Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 137. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.
Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Brenden Bates
Comment: There could be a hook in Song Zhenzhong being an infant when detained at Xifeng and nine when executed, but I need a stout drink.

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 689 past nominations.

— Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Article new and long enough, well-referenced throughout. Both hooks confirmed in the Muhlhahn book, and both interesting, either will work. QPQ is done, and copyvio not detected (Earwig only flagged long names). Good to go. Juxlos (talk) 07:50, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

This appears to have been the official website of the attraction. It's dead of this timestamp. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:51, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Jens Lallensack (talk) 22:23, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Xifeng concentration camp/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) 20:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Jens Lallensack (talk · contribs) 01:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will review. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 01:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

was constructed primarily to discipline staff of the Bureau of Investigation and Statistics (Juntong) – the staff were prisoner there? I can't really follow. Also, this information does not seem to be repeated in the main text.
- It's in the body of the article, writ "At the top of the hierarchy were Juntong members who had been accused of dereliction of duty or disobedience; according to Mühlhahn, these accounted for approximately 70 per cent of all detainees." They were not prison staff, but staff of the overarching organization. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "Description" mixes the description of the original sites with the modern museum, which I thought is confusing. Maybe Auschwitz concentration camp could be a template here; the museum is described in a separate section at the end, which makes much sense to me.
Having said that, the "Description" section leaves a lot of questions, and does not do a particularly good job to explain things. What is the relevance of these caves? For what were they used for? Where these two sites effectively two independent camps, or did they had common facilities? From reading that rather short section, I had a hard time imagining how that looked like.
The entrance gate identifies the site as the Xifeng Headquarters of the National Government Military Commission,[8] with a further sign reading "Lift Your Head Up" (抬起头来). – OK, but what does it mean? I don't know what to make of this information. Is it currently the headquarters of that commission? What is "Lift Your Head Up" trying to convey? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 09:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I think the above three would be solved by recasting the modern description section into a dedicated Museum section. Will get back to you on that. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have reorganized with these edits. How does it look? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Looks good, and much better! It is a bit strange to have "Overview" as the last section of the article, although I see that it might make sense here. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - Does "Current site" work better? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Construction of the Xifeng concentration camp began following the Marco Polo Bridge incident of 1937,[1] during which members of the Imperial Japanese Army came into conflict with the National Revolutionary Army outside Beijing,[4] after the Kuomintang (KMT) closed its camp in Nanjing. – Since this Marco Polo Bridge incident is also mentioned in the lead, it must have been pivotal for the establishment of this concentration camp, but the connection is not explained. Why did the incident result in the creation of the camp?

during which members of the Imperial Japanese Army came into conflict with the National Revolutionary Army – you could add that this is the military arm of the KMT, to help the reader a bit.
- Have done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
arranged for multiple sites due to the number of detainees – I can't fully follow; "multiple sites" means that this concentration camp is one of them? What were the others, then?
- I've rearranged this a fair bit. Hopefully it helps. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This process, which occurred as the national capital moved from Nanjing to Chongqing, resulted in more than 15,000 troops being stationed in Xifeng – Yeah, but why? What do have these troops to do with the camp? Did they build it?
- I've rearranged this a fair bit. Hopefully it helps. The inclusion of this information is meant to contextualize what escape would mean, if it happened, and give an impression of the general state of Xifeng county at the time. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the natural karst Xuantian Cave – I would be surprised if the other cave is not a karst cave?
- Nixed, per your comment below and my re-review of the source (天然溶洞, natural cave). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the model used by it – clumsy wording, rephrase?
- How's this? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
50 miles (80 km) – Shouldn't km come first, and miles within the brackets? You have this order with metre and feet.
- Source strangely ends up with miles there. That being said, as basic math that shouldn't fall afoul of WP:OR, and thus fixed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other than that, well written! I did some spotchecks and all good, though I cannot really read Chinese, but are you sure that the source says "Karst" and not simply "Cave"? I think the source has this 洞 which I think means "cave"? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- You're right. :/ Nixed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:24, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.