Talk:Thomas Sewell (neo-Nazi)/GA1

GA Review

Passed. PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: TarnishedPath (talk · contribs) 14:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: PARAKANYAA (talk · contribs) 09:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I will review this. While it looks to be decently written and sourced from a skim over it, I have some major issues.

My biggest is, is this really all the information available about Sewell? There is so little about him here it doesn't feel like a biography at all. I cannot believe that with someone who has as high a profile as this guy that they have found nothing on him, besides individual listings of Incidents he has been involved with little commentary. As a result, this reads in a disjointed manner where it's just a few sentences that provide little context and then nothing else. What was he doing before this? What else does he do? Is there really nothing? Most sources are used only once, which indicates to me this article may not have WP:MINED its sources effectively.

With something like the Lads Society, for instance, this article barely explains what it is, so the stuff wrt Tarrant comes off like a non sequiter. What was he trying to recruit him into? Why did he reject it (I know for a fact the coverage says this)? What did the group do? What was his response to Chch, since his attempt to recruit Tarrant was a major controversy for him?

If there really isn't anything else, it shouldn't impact the GA, but I doubt it. Either way the article should be restructured because the incredibly brief early life section is awkward in relation to the rest of the article. It also just comes off like a list of incidents, which to some degree is perhaps unavoidable given the news cycle but there has to be some way to make this flow more naturally.

My concerns are fundamental enough to the way the article is structured that I think it would be to be difficult to address, but not impossible, so I won't quickfail this.

I will do a deeper/more formal look later. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing, this article has an excessive amount of citations on specific statements. If they're all needed, they should be bundled to be less of an eyesore. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I've done a bit of restructure to put the personal life sections and early life/education sections together so they don't appear so disjointed as random sentences. I've also added some other material about Sewell's personal life that I hadn't read before which I found in a source using ProQuest. I wouldn't have otherwise read the material as it was behind a paywall.

I've also added some material on the Lads Society and Tarrant. Lastly I've grouped a bunch of references together in different places.

Has what I've done make the article better?

What further suggestions do you have? TarnishedPath^talk 11:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Already a major improvement! Great job. I will do a deeper look now. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
1A: I did a copyedit. After that, this passes. If I accidentally introduced any Americanisms feel free to revert those. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LEAD: I am aware there was a discussion about this and it was the consensus, but as a member of WP:CRIMEBIO, this kind of thing has been discussed before and saying in the lead that someone is a "criminal" or "convicted criminal" alone is sloppy writing and frowned upon. A criminal conviction can be anything, it can be mass homicide, rape, tax fraud, or anything. Sources rarely describe someone as just "a criminal", it's typically what their conviction was, many crimes are not a claim to notability, so describing someone as just "a criminal" is not great. It is not a BLP issue since he was convicted, it's just sloppy. This isn't a point of failure for the GA nomination, I'm aware that there was a whole discussion about this, but I really don't think this is good writing. Him being charged with crimes is of course relevant information for the lead, but I think focusing more on what he did to get that conviction (attacking people and nazi protests) may be more clear than just saying "criminal"

I'm mildly surprised that this uses Infobox officeholder, given he is the "self appointed leader", but that's not exactly wrong.

Per WP:LEAD, there should not be material only in the lead. As it is now the bit: "In October 2023 Sewell was sentenced to a prison term of one month and seven days, after attacking hikers at Victoria's Cathedral Range." is only in the lead. Add that to the body? It also seems kind of random that this is the criminal charge in the lead and not the prior one.

More thoughts to come. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This passes on this front now. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I've performed some edits to the lead and the body. The being sentenced to a prison term was already in the body, where it stated that he was sentenced to time served. I edited to make it explicit that time served was one month and seven days. I've also edited the lead to remove convicted criminal which may be the consensus of the prior RFC, however I've edited to state the criminal acts that he has been convicted of. I hope none of the other editors have an issue with that. I'll continue looking at the rest of your suggestions below later on. TarnishedPath^talk 09:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see also my suggestion for the lead: Special:PermanentLink/1255072406. I rearranged the content to better describe who he is in the first sentence. The edit is just a suggestion and I don't dispute the previous version.—Alalch E. 00:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your suggestion solved the problem I had here and I support it. PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LAYOUT: The "political views" heading is a misnomer, it focuses on his views but is also on his leadership of various far-right groups, which is more than views I'd say? I feel it's a slightly misleading heading. This also just kind of feels like pre-2021 activities, because him recruiting Tarrant sticks out in this section (further organizational issues listed below)

There's also the "activities" section. After looking into the sourcing I realize it's probably to some degree unavoidable given how he is covered (whenever he does something that makes the news), but this feels like an unfortunate way to structure a biography article. All the content here is fine, but it doesn't feel cohesive or like part of a biography on him, just a list. I also think there may be a few too many headings in this activities section, which makes it feel even more like a weird list. If you can't find a better way to structure this that's understandable so it's not enough to fail over, but I find it awkward. Also, when it comes to the Cathedral Range assault, that paragraph is structured backwards, with the charges first when it should be the crime followed by the charges then the sentence. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA I've changed the name of the "political views" section to "politics". I hope that better encapsulates the section. I've also re=ordered the Cathedral Range sub-section. Please let me know if you think I can do a better job there. As per the "activities" section in general, you are correct that it's a consequence of the sourcing. Even before your commontary I've been thinking about how to better format it and I haven't to date. TarnishedPath^talk 13:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have done a first pass at fixing the layout. As before, this is a suggestion that may address this point of improvement. I agree with your review in that the layout must be more conventional and that the headers need to be descriptive. I would also suggest that the "Views" section should always come after the "Career / Activities / similar" core chronological account in a biography. —Alalch E. 13:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA: Just a ping, because my above comment looks like it's easy to miss. —Alalch E. 18:15, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks better to me. I still feel like this is too many headings, not every single incident needs its own one when most are only a paragraph. Maybe group some of them together? PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:29, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA: At the moment I am unable to come up with a tidy subsectioning scheme. I think that the article can work work without any of those.—Alalch E. 23:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An unrelated, extremely minor gripe: is there any specific reason the two further reading links are there? Is there anything unique those two articles have that necessitates their inclusion, or any content they have that isn't in this article? To me, it just looks like they rehash the content already in the article, which is not of much use. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, that's sourcing that could be used in the article and isn't needed because there is other sourcing covering that stuff in the article already. I've removed it. TarnishedPath^talk 13:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WORD CHOICE: describes him as a neo-Nazi but that's well attested and supported by sources. I see no issues. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FICTION: Not an issue here. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LISTS: Not an issue here (unless you count the list of activities at the bottom, which we will get to with the layout check) PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
REF SECTION: No issues here, pass.

RELIABLE SOURCES: Most sources are good, all reliable news outlets. I have some questions as to the reliability of the two citations to the Herald Sun, given that they are a tabloid, and the RSN discussions do not give me confidence. Can you replace these citations?

This is unrelated to the GA criteria, but I would recommend standardizing the wikilinking of the publication name in the citations. It should preferably be consistent, as it is now it is linked in some of them but others it's just plaintext. Also, the first citation for the "neo-Nazi" bundle cite has Australian Broadcasting Corporation linked thrice, present identically in three separate parameters. That citation should also probably give the source as ABC News (Australia) and not the publishing company, as other sources in the same page do. It seems that every citation to that publication is formatted differently (for example, one gives it as ABC.net.au, some use the publication name, some only give the publisher, some don't give the publisher. Should be standardized. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA, I've removed Herald Sun. I'm surprised I missed it being there as I was involved in the most recent WP:RS/N discussion and I have been removing it most of the time that I come across it. I'll look at your suggestion of standardised links to publisher later. TarnishedPath^talk 09:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I've now standardized all of the references to refer to |work=... and provided links for everything. Let me know if I've missed anything. What next? TarnishedPath^talk 10:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing, all good here on this front. PARAKANYAA (talk) 07:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SPOT CHECK/COPYVIO CHECK: (see below}
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
MAJOR ASPECTS: While the sources are reliable, the sources are entirely news articles. While this would be fine if this was all that there was, there is actually a bit of academic discussion about Sewell that this article does not include, which focus on elements that the news sources don't cover or cover differently.
These sources, which I was able to access either through the WPL or elsewhere, give sigcov of Sewell:
Global Identitarianism, Routledge, 2023, pp. 206-207

Global Heating and the Australian Far Right, Routledge, 2024, pp. 74, 97, 100, 107, 215

A Fortified Far Right?: Scrutinizing the Threat, Taylor & Francis, 2024, pp. 37, 94, 97

Richards, Imogen; Rae, Maria; Vergani, Matteo; Jones, Callum (2021-04-01). "Political philosophy and Australian far-right media: A critical discourse analysis of The Unshackled and XYZ". Thesis Eleven. 163 (1): 107, 125. doi:10.1177/07255136211008605. ISSN 0725-5136. Retrieved 2024-11-03.
Less significant:
Masculinity and Violent Extremism, Palgrave Macmillan, 2022, pp. 58, 62-63

Global Perspectives on Anti-Feminism, Edinburgh University Press, 2021, pp. 128, 131
While a GA does not need to be comprehensive like a FA would have to be, I believe that missing academic discussion entirely of a far-right figure when that coverage exists means this article does not yet pass the "main aspect" GA criterion. Other sources it may be useful to replace news sources with them as they are usually considered more reliable, though that is not strictly necessary, and you don't have to incorporate every single source I listed above those are just suggestions, as again this isn't the FA criteria. But it needs some academic discussion. If you need access to any of the sections in these sources that discuss Sewell feel free to email me.

FOCUSED: No issues here, pass. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll have a read of those articles tomorrow evening, at least the ones I can access through WPL and see what they can replace and if there is any extra content that can be added to the article from them. TarnishedPath^talk 10:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I've added a bit of material and included usage of those sources. Do you have any other suggestions? TarnishedPath^talk 04:05, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to pass this now. The sources could probably be mined more, but this is enough for major aspects. PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA I've added a bit more material, reworded a bit and reused sources a bit more. TarnishedPath^talk 08:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
I was initially questioning the usage of the disamb neo-Nazi - not disputing he is one, but it seemed unusual to use that as the disamb. However I did find some other well written pages that used it (James Mason (neo-Nazi), Bill White (neo-Nazi)), it doesn't seem very contentious to apply the label to him, and WP:DAB says nothing about it as far as I can see so I don't think it's an issue.

I haven't marked it a pass yet since I haven't finished the check but preliminary it seems fine. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per other checks, pass this. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

neo-Nazi was the disamb in the article when it was published to mainspace after an AFC review and it's been that way since as far as I can tell. I think it is probably the best disamb to distinguish him from the other Thomas Sewells. TarnishedPath^talk 09:35, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with it being the best I just thought I'd mark it down lest anyone take any issue with it in the future. PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
No issues here. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Images are both valid CC Attribution licenses and appropriate. The infobox one needs a caption. Should say what year it was at least. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA Done. I've add text stating that it was taken from an interview in the lead up to a match with rival Neil Erikson. TarnishedPath^talk 00:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath Sorry for the wait I completely forgot I was doing this! Will start again tonight, apologies. PARAKANYAA (talk) 00:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All good. TarnishedPath^talk 01:22, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spot checks

Random selection. Checking from this revision

"Sewell was born around 1993 in New Zealand." country supported by 10, year supported by 9a (basic math does not count as OR), good
"The incident was filmed and later posted on social media by Sewell himself. The attack drew condemnation from Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews who labelled it as "sickening"." The second sentence is supported, but I can't find anything that says it was posted by Sewell, only that it was posted online and filmed by his associate. Also, the sources specify that they were racially abusing the guard, who was Black, which should probably be added. The News.com.au source specifies that the report included material on Sewell's group, which is probably implied but I think should just be said.

More to come. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, Ok I've removed the bit about it being posted online by Sewell himself, I think that bit might have been supported by unreliable sources which I removed (can't remember as it was a while ago). Obviously he wasn't the person filming it as sources state it was his associate, Jakob Hersant and so I removed the whole sentence. I've added material about the "dance, monkey dance" comment from Hersant and added that the security guard was a black man. The wording is bit rough and let me know if you think it can be improved. What next? TarnishedPath^talk 12:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, continuing. I'm also going to be making this a bit of a misc comments section alongside the spot check because reviewing it this way makes me notice things that aren't elaborated on.
"Videos leaked to the press in November 2019 revealed Sewell's aim was to attract and recruit members from mainstream society under the guise of a men's fitness club." supported by source, but minor WP:CLOP issue: "under the guise of a men's fitness club" is the exact language in the Guardian source, which I feel is creative enough phrasing that it should be rephrased.
"A leaked manual from Sewell's groups revealed how their members manipulate social media and journalists to gain publicity, amplify messaging and help them recruit new members" supported by source, good. however i think the sentence before this should probably be after since it refers to what i think is the same leaked material in the prior sentence, before it is brought up, which is confusing
"The NSN was established through a merger of the Lads Society and Antipodean Resistance." supported by the source, good
"After being sentenced, Sewell performed a Nazi salute outside the courtroom." supported by source, good
The whole section about him attacking the guard is supported by the source, but it's phrased very awkwardly. Can you try to rephrase it to make it flow better?
More to come. PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA, I've reworded the text regarding the leaked video a little bit, I've also re-arranged those two sentences you mentioned and I've reworded a bit in the security guard section to hopeful make the language more natural. Please let me know if the changes I've made go far enough. TarnishedPath^talk 09:02, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ps, I haven't thought of a way to reduce the headings at this point in time. TarnishedPath^talk 09:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA, any further guidance? TarnishedPath^talk 09:43, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath Am unfortunately away from the computer at the moment, so I can only respond on my phone which makes checking quite difficult (I can respond of course though). I will finish the spot checks for accuracy/OR/etc when I am back, which will be soon, apologies for the wait. The only thing that really needs to be done is that.

I am still bothered by the structure, though improved, since it is just one per incident instead of grouping them, especially since some of the sections are so short. The last one, is less about any specific incident so maybe it should be moved to the top. Another reason I don’t like it is that since he does these stunts so regularly (in fact while we were doing this GA review he got charged again!) it’s just going to get longer and be worse over time. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When you're able to look at things through your computer you will see that @Alalch E. has removed all the subheadings under the activities heading. I agree that he's going to keep doing stunts until he ends up in prison. I thought about that and considered that if/when the article does get too long it will make it easier to think about what is significant for inclusion and exclusion. TarnishedPath^talk 10:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My bad. Yeah, fine on that front (though I may copy edit again). Will hopefully be later today (sorry for the wait!). PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the time you've been spending on this. TarnishedPath^talk 10:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you think about this option ... —Alalch E. 10:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It does sort of structure it better than having a sub-heading for each incident and I guess makes it in a way easier for editing as he goes on doing stunts. I'm trying to think of a better sub-section heading than "Founding of the National Socialist Network and attacks" though as the 'and attacks' bit sort of sticks out. Logically lumping the content in that section together makes sense as it all occurred in the first half of 2021 (the founding and then the attacks in any case) but the heading name could be better. In any case better than before I think. TarnishedPath^talk 11:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alalch E. I've just realised that content from Nick McKenzie's 60 minutes segment on the National Socialist Network (see https://youtube.com/5uDlerFTrFs?si=OSKRIEWUiT6JL9Yd) has been edited out of the article over time. Not sure if the reference is still in the article. I don't think it was intentional and just sort of happened. Anyway that segment solidified Sewell's notability in conjunction with the security guard attack, although the security guard attack is the main reason that they became notable. I'll have to put some material about the segment into the article as it will probably help make the National Socialist Network section more cohesive. TarnishedPath^talk 12:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TarnishedPath Seems like a good idea, that is a good source. If you weren't going to, when citing AV material, please use timestamps, it makes it so much easier for checking later on. PARAKANYAA (talk) 12:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll include timestamps. TarnishedPath^talk 05:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could workshop the heading titles a bit but this structuring is much better and I see no issue for GA-standards in this state. PARAKANYAA (talk) 17:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spot checks pt 3:

1. "In August 2024, it was reported that Sewell was leading a cell of the Active Club Network in South Australia known as Croweater. Sewell was suspended from X in July 2024, but the Croweater page remains, featuring a photo of masked members carrying a banner reading "Australia for the white man"." supported by source - however, we should explain what an Active Club is, since the source does, we don't explain it anywhere else in the article, and that is a specific thing. PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2: "In 2017, Sewell invited Brenton Tarrant (the perpetrator of the 2019 Christchurch mosque shootings) to join the Lads Society. He praised the Lads Society's activism." This is supported by the sources but is missing some context that I feel makes this confusing. Also I think the second sentence should specify it's Tarrant and be in past tense; logically it's clearly Tarrant but the way this flows from the past sentence seems odd. The 2020 Guardian source specifies that he was "an active member of two Facebook pages run by the Lads Society", which I feel helps it makes more sense contextually as to why Sewell tried to recruit him.
I also don't get why the 2019 Guardian source is in the citation bundle, because it doesn't seem to support any specific statement it's being used for here, unlike the other two (I could be wrong about this?). It also might be worth including Sewell "inferring from Tarrant’s comments at the time" that he rejected "a peaceful solution" (as said in the SMH source) and that was part of why he refused, since it contextualizes the sentence right after about Sewell saying that "he would see violence against minorities as an option", but that's up to your discretion if that is or isn't due weight PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
3. "Police told Sewell that the reasons for issuing him with the order was based on his ideology, his associates, previous incidents he's been engaged in because of ideology, his criminal history and his goal of intimidating and provoking people"." supported by the source, but it seems to have been partially rephrased, so now it's like... a half quote (shown by the quote at the end). Should either be fully rephrased and summarized or returned to the original phrasing and properly quoted. Also the phrasing "the reasons for issuing him with the order was based on" seems slightly incorrect to me. otherwise good PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
4. "arrived at Nine Network's Melbourne office" if they were the producers of the program, specify that. otherwise this sentence is fine, good PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
5. "A counterprotest in support of transgender rights, attended by many students, transgender activists, and socialists, clashed with the neo-Nazis. While the police, including several mounted officers, attempted to separate the two groups, several were restrained by police, and it was reported that pepper spray was used at least once." the source does not say socialists attended the protests, or students. it also doesn't say a counterprotest specifically. was a source misplaced here? also, the pepper spray detail seems superfluous and doesn't add to understanding, especially since it has to be qualified with "was reported that"
6. "In May 2021 Sewell and up to 15 other masked men attacked hikers in Victoria's Cathedral Range." number or involvement of other people, or place, not supported by source, i assume a source was misplaced here PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
7. "The events were condemned by the Labor Party, and the Liberal Party." it wasn't the party as a whole, but individual MPs, which is different. also "the events"? maybe "the rally"? PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll have a look at this later on tonigh. TarnishedPath^talk 05:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before I get started making edits addressing the points above in about 50 minutes once my children are in bed, I've made an edit at Special:Diff/1257111082 moving material from the activities/early section to the views section. I then expanded on the views section at Special:Diff/1257115286 and expanded on the recent arrest for allegedly attempting to intimidate a police officer at Special:Diff/1257111907. Let me know if you think I should move the material back to the activities/early section form the views section. TarnishedPath^talk 09:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Sewell_%28neo-Nazi%29&diff=1257129303&oldid=1257126920 for a series of edits in regards to task 1. I've explained what an active club is but I move the content to views given it tied in with other material about his recruitment attempts. Let me know if that move is good. I was also thinking that perhaps the stuff in activities should be more focused on stunts. Again let me know what you think. TarnishedPath^talk 11:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I think I've covered all of the points above. Let me know you're thoughts.

In regards to adding in the 60 minutes story I've added two sentences so far. I couldn't worth out how to do timestamps. The second use of the source was at 3:44 if you're able to provide guidance on how to add timestamps that would help me out. Anyway I'm off to bed soon and I'll do more work tomorrow adding in content from 60 minutes.

Besides the 60 minutes report what else is there, or do I need to work further on the points above? TarnishedPath^talk 13:58, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ps, for anyone wanting to look at the 60 minutes report the original one is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804CxkmnxLY. TarnishedPath^talk 14:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PARAKANYAA, I've addressed the points above and I've added a bunch of content from the 60 minutes episode (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Sewell_%28neo-Nazi%29&diff=1257341863&oldid=1257329029 for a series of edits). Please let me know if what I've done so far is adequate of if more work is needed. TarnishedPath^talk 12:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good! I'm going to do a copy edit and then do more spot checks (my general idea is that when they come back mostly fine we will be good to pass this) PARAKANYAA (talk) 17:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA, what did you think about the placement of the 60 minutes material in the NSN section? TarnishedPath^talk 00:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TarnishedPath I think it's placed well. My only issue with it is that some of the facts seem slightly undue weight when it comes to a biography of Sewell, as they only indirectly relate to him or are too specific and the whole paragraph is pretty long. Would be fine on the NSN article, but I trimmed some I considered to be slightly extraneous on a biography of Sewell - it gets kind of weird when one is citing from a documentary, since there tends to be a lot more content to pick through to include. If there are facts you feel strongly about restoring then you can do that but I think it flows better this way. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:41, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PARAKANYAA I was feeling it was getting a bit long, and also had the idea that I would be reusing the content at the NSN article at some point. I thought it better to add most of the significant stuff from the episode first and then see what others thought about it. I'm good with the edits that you've done. TarnishedPath^talk 09:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spot checks:

whole 60 minutes paragraph - skimmed the documentary, says what the text says it does, good. PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"In May 2021 Sewell and up to 15 other masked men attacked hikers in Victoria's Cathedral Range." - supported by source
"Sewell's blood was found inside the car of the attacked hikers." does not say this, but it says that he injured his arm. misplaced ref again?
"Sewell's stated goal was to encourage the "speed and ferocity of the decay" of society and to help foment a "race war" by exploiting issues raised by politicians." mostly supported by the guardian, but it doesn't mention the race war bit in this way, or at least not this directly, it says that: "telling members they had been born “just in time” for a coming “race war”". mostly accurate, but rephrase
"He then studied civil engineering at Swinburne University of Technology, but left without graduating." supported by source, good
paragraph starting "On 22 October 2024" supported by sources, good
"The rally was organised by British anti-trans activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull and Moira Deeming, while Keen-Minshull was visiting the city on her Australian and New Zealand tour." could not verify this since it was paywalled for me, but the source seems along this lines so i will accept it

There is only one real error here and it's almost certainly the product of this article getting shuffled around, which I have checked the other sections for, so I think I feel good on passing this. Please fix that though! PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll just fix the car one myself, found a source easily, so that's fine. PARAKANYAA (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.