Talk:Black Widow (Chechnya)

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Death: Suicide Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Suicide task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Islam: Islam and Controversy Low‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Islam and Controversy task force.

Military history: Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion not met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Russia: History / Military / Politics and law / Religion Mid‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
	This article is supported by the politics and law of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the religion in Russia task force.
	This article needs a map. Once the requested map is added, remove the `\|mapneeded=` and `\|mapdetails=` parameters from this template. The editor who added the request suggests the following: of Chechnya and its location in Russia
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph of of Black Widows be added to this article.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Black Widow (Chechnya) be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Origin of the name "Black Widow"

I am starting to doubt that this name is Russian or Chechen in origin, as is at least suggested here. The following link tells me otherwise: [1]

1994, when no one in Chechnya had ever heard of a woman suicide bomber. --Pan Gerwazy 19:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Palestinian who joined the Lebanese-based pro-Iranian Hizbullah movement after her husband and son, both members of the Abu Nidal terrorist group, were killed by Israeli forces four year ago." Then the whole article is wrong. Should be changed or renamed to shahidka. ("And they were wrapped with suicide belts and they carried guns, two women, shahidka, that's what Russians call them, martyrs." [2])

The question is of course whether this article should only refer to the Chechen female suicide bombers. I am fairly sure that "Black Widow" is rarely used in Russia - if it is (and in English!), it is because a westerner is present who needs to be convinced about a link between Chechen terrorists and Al Qaeda. Shahidka is the word normally used, though sociologists and historians appearing on NTV may use "Brides of Allah". Outside Rusia, the situation is different. I suppose the image of those black-clad women in the theatre was so strong on the mind of many that most people in the West (except Jews and people form the Russian diaspora) now think that "Black Widows" are originally Chechen. I am sure I recently read a newspaper article in which a female suicide bomber in the Middle East was called a "Black Widow" but with the added text "like the Chechen women at the Moscow theatre".

Note that not all Palestinians are muslims, there were even groupings which consisted almost exclusively of Christians (these groups amalgamated with Al Fatah). Since the participation of women is still a bit too much to swallow for a lot of muslim men (remember how even in 2004 a Maskhadov website still denied the existence of female suicide bombers?), I suppose the first female Palestinian "terrorists" may have been Christian. Another argument not to switch to shakhida just like that.

So, I would not switch to "shakhida" too fast, but mention the origin of the term, and explain that most people in the West think exclusively of Chechen women now. And that the normal word in Russian is shahidka, but the expression "Brides of Allah" is a stylistic equivalent of "Black Widows" and was coined by ... etc --Pan Gerwazy 19:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As for the viewer reactions, they were dressed in a Middle Eastern burkas for a purpose. Whatever show they meant in Moscow (for their Arab sponsors?), no one dresses like this in Caucassus. Other than posing for cameras and looking uber-Islamic, they had no practical purpose (fake bombs, no training). Also some spoke to hostages in Moscow they don't really mean to die. Previously, shakhidkas wore a normal clothes and drove a real vehicular bombs (one on foot with a grenade bundle on her own initiative). It was weird and for show only (after all, it was a theatre). --HanzoHattori 18:51, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We're being quoted

... by chechnya-sl [3].

Hm ... I wonder where she got the idea, however. Such expressions do not usually come out of thin air. They have predecessors, origins, like "Black Widow". --Pan Gerwazy 00:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removing Arabic script template

"Shahid" is an Arabic word (شهيد), but -ka is a Slavic ending. I doubt whether the whole form "Shahidka" is very commonly written in Arabic script... AnonMoos 14:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I cant believe this article even exists! This buzzword was invented by some semi-literate scribbler who didnt bother to read something on the topic (old anecdote symbolizes: "I am writer, not a reader!"). If you have one scissor and get one scissor more, you can cut the paper... guess that gives idea about this word. Btw, Shaheeda (definitely non-canonical and questionable). Also, "brides of allah" just predates "brides of christ" and FAILS because all of them are widows. 03:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.77.21.121 (talk)

Brides of Allah

Brides of Allah - It's book contains many doubtful data --Mega programmer

Is it time?

To add the latest bombings in Moscow to this list?--Senor Freebie (talk) 21:13, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move at Black Widow.

For any editors concerned, there is a proposed moved at the disambiguation page Black Widow. If you have anything to add to the discussion, please do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Widow#Proposed_move Weebro55 (talk) 04:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move at Black Widow.

For any editors concerned, there is a proposed moved at the disambiguation page Black Widow. If you have anything to add to the discussion, please do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Widow#Proposed_move Weebro55 (talk) 04:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Shahidka. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070506082603/http://www.facts.ch:80/dyn/magazin/ausland/442372.html to http://www.facts.ch/dyn/magazin/ausland/442372.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 19:18, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Page move

Per WP:COMMONNAME. The citations in this article and internet searches show that the term Black Widows is much more common in English. If you search for "shahidka", the news articles coming up tend to have "Black Widows" in the title. Incidentally, the lead of the Russian version of this article doesn't even mentiont the word. Eperoton (talk) 00:06, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Sex, Power and International Politics

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mel226, Deirdredunne, IzLu4249 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by 4xxxx4 (talk) 20:00, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]