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Talk:Opinion polling for the 2013 Iranian presidential election

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The sources uses in this are not reliable as I suggested here. Also, the article is basically an original research.Farhikht (talk) 15:04, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Original research[edit]

The article is entirely based on primary sources, so it's an original research. If you don't add some reliable secondary sources to it I will nominate it for deletion.Farhikht (talk) 12:15, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About adding By provinces part![edit]

If you want to have such specific part like Poll results in Provinces to the article, it should be based on a trustable reference!

http://www.jamnews.ir/fans that you used as the main reference, is not a trustable reference at all and it seems like some of the candidates fan page! Unfortunately by continuing to add such non-trustable parts to the article, you just may cause this article will be deleted sooner! Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 14:33, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think no website is trustable in Iran! If this is our main for the polls, we must deleted many other polls. What's you reason for that jamnews is not a good source? Tabarez (talk) 16:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the website reaches more than 10,000 votes. I think we can add it. Tabarez (talk) 16:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This website has some strange system of percentages! But anyway, because it reached more than 10000 votes I add it. I hope it will be fine for you, too. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 20:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And what about polls by provinces? Is a good idea to add to the article or not? Tabarez (talk) 07:07, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not! This website does not have any specific poll system for each province. If fact the thing that this website do is that based on the area IP addresses define that for instance form Kerman 100 people participate in this online poll and the percentage for each candidates will be obtained! If fact from whole Iran only around 12,000 people participate in this poll. It can be for instance 2000 form Tehran, 1000 from Esfahan, ......, 50 from Zahedan, 10 from Gilan! So expressing this poll data by each province does not give a correct data base. Because it is not clear that the percentages for candidates obtained after 10 votes in a province or after 100 votes or 1000 votes! Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 08:31, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with You. Also IPs may be changed to another country by using VPN or Socks! Tabarez (talk) 08:40, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About the added Graph![edit]

This graph in only showing the poll result of of the references (IPOS), and cannot be added in this way to the top of the article! Because it may cause that the article reader think this shows the summary of all polls in the article. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 16:45, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Because of this, I add the source under the picture! We can't add all websites trend's! This is our only trustable source. Please add to the article. Tabarez (talk) 16:58, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this the only trustable source!? What is the difference between this one and the others? Even in 'washingtonpost.com' reference that you put for IPOS in the article it says:"Any poll can be wrong, and phone-based surveys in Iran have obvious shortcomings and challenges. So take the results with a grain of salt!".
And if you check the original reference (http://ipos.me/), it seems more like a weblog and not a official website. Also you can read this article:
http://ashnaie.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B4%D9%86%DA%AF%D8%B1%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B7%D9%87-%D8%A8%D8%A7-%DB%8C%DA%A9-%D8%B3%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%AA-%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%86%D8%AC%DB%8C-ipos/
Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 17:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have send you a message to detail my reasons in Persian. Please check. Tabarez (talk) 17:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I answer you in my talk page. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 18:03, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Online Polls?[edit]

Online polls? "Ongoing" online polls? Ongoing online polls with dead links? Why is there even a section for this? Do I even have to go into how blatantly this is WP:OR and not WP:V? I'm sorry, but there is no justification for including a link to an online poll here on Wikipedia, on this article or any any article. They have to go. Please do not add any that aren't published through a third party source.-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 17:28, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks dear Patrick for your notification. I got the point. Later I try to put the ones in the article that are mentioned in a third party source by giving the reference and also remove the ones that do not have any reliable reference. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 17:50, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The fact is that all these polls are online polls. That's why I nominated it for deletion. There is not even a single reliable source in this article.Farhikht (talk) 17:53, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Farhikht, it seems you are not familiar with the definition of Online poll! The field polls and telephone polls that are given in the article are not online polls and they have the reliable references. Please read more about the definition of field polls and telephone polls. Regards, Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 17:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You put materials from

and... and you called them reliable source. The problem is that here no one knows Persian otherwise this article couldn't stay for some weeks.Farhikht (talk) 18:23, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How you can say these things? Do have some reliable sources that says these News agencies and websites are belonging to these names that you provided!? Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 18:34, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to say but yes, we do have a real sourcing problem here. Looking at it, I see two polls out of the 30 still included that I can say pass the basic test of being a third party source. One in the Washington Post and one in PressTV. And PressTV comes with its own asterisk in terms of reliable sourcing. Maybe others are legit, but about half of the "sources" have dead links or just link to an organization's home page.-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 18:40, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. I try to solve these problems that you mentioned. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 19:00, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As an example, you used Fararu as a reliable source 4 times in this article. Here is Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf official campaign page which claims that Fararu is associated with him.Farhikht (talk) 22:33, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]


The page that you provided is one of the fan pages of Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf. How you can trust the contents of such non-official fan pages which will be administrated with some of Ghalibaf fans!? Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 23:09, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just for your notification. Here is the "About page" of Fararu News Agency. In a part of the text it says:

فرارو ارگان هیچ حزب و جناح سیاسی نیست و به اردوگاه های سیاسی از قبیل اصلاح طلبی و اصول گرایی، سرسپردگی ندارد

Translation to English: Fararu is not the organ of any party or political factions, and is not belonging to political camps such as conservatives and reformists.
Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 23:36, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. What about this one which says that Fararu is close to Ghalibaf? Or this one, (original), which is from Entekhab, a reliable source according to you?Farhikht (talk) 09:04, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm quiet familiar with Iranian news websites since I'm working in the media industry and I can provide source for all my claims if necessary.Farhikht (talk) 09:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Farhikht, first one of the references that you provided is talking about http://fardanews.com/ and not http://fararu.com/ !?
And second I do not understand about the reason that you insist this website belongs to one of the presidential candidates, while in the "About page" of Fararu is says the News Agency is not belonging to any political person or party! As it says in the "About page, the website is manned by Mr. Mohammad-Hossein Khoshvaght, one of the Iranian journalists. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 10:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Where did I claim that Fararu belongs to Ghalibaf? The main and the only editor of Fararu is Mohammad Hossein Khoshvaght and it has no editorial oversight. I think that you have to take a look at "about" section of news websites to know more about how they work. For example read "about" section of Fars news agency [1] which claims that Farsnews is independent but The Wall Street Journal, a reliable source, states that this agency is affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard Corps. For this claim we don't look at "about" section of Fars News, we search in reliable secondary sources. Please consider reading this article on primary sources. I provide a source for you {Entekhab) which is reliable according to you, as you uses it in the article. This source says that Fararu is associated to Ghalibaf. This is not very difficult to understand, Wikipedia works in this way. As I remember you told me once that you know that these websites are not reliable but we use them as we don't have any other option. Sorry, we can't use non-reliable sources and there is no obligation.Farhikht (talk) 11:18, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like to continue this discussion more, because I prefer to spend my time for improving the article quality and not fighting in the Talk page! But just for the last point, I've never said such a sentence that you mentioned at the end of your comment! Someone else might said such a thing. Our disagreement in mainly on the definition of reliable sources. You thinks that almost all of the "Persian News Agencies" in Iran like Farsnews are not the reliable sources, but I disagree with your point. Best regards, Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 12:45, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I never said that I believe that Persian news agencies are not reliable. The fact is that we have a policy on the reliability of non-English sources so this is not up to me to accept Persian sources or not. Fars news agency is reliable for some issues but not for controversial cases as it clearly states (and many independent sources affirm) that it promotes the interests of Iran and Islamic Republic.Farhikht (talk) 13:20, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here Mohammad Hossein Khoshvaght, the owner of Fararu.com, states that he endorse Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf.Farhikht (talk) 08:17, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IPOS Telephone Poll[edit]

Why was the IPOS daily tracker Telephone Poll section removed and combined back into the large mess of web polls....

I think seeing as its the only scientific poll and is a daily tracker it deserves its own section as its (arguably) the only one that should be on this page here anyway... Looks like someone changed it back now, well i added today's results.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.95.74.165 (talk) 05:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge the article contents![edit]

Thanks dear Patrick for moving the IPOS polls to the main article. I also moved the "Polls for Debates Winner" part to Iranian presidential election debates, 2013. The rest polls like "Field polls" and "Internet polls" needs some source verification before moving them. I try to do some works on them in the following days. It will be great if the other users can also help in this issue. Koorosh1234 (talk|contribs) 17:13, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and redirected this article to the Opinion polling section on the Iranian presidential election, 2013, since its been over a week since the decision to merge the article. This means that editors can still access the history of this page if they wish to do further merging, but no additional editing should be done on this article. Thanks.-- Patrick, oѺ∞ 16:10, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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