Talk:N. P. Williams

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Christianity: Theology / Anglicanism Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by theology work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Anglicanism (assessed as Low-importance).

University of Oxford Low‑importance

	University of Oxford portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Requested move 15 October 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved uncontroversially. (non-admin closure) — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 12:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Norman Powell Williams → N. P. Williams – Per MOS:COMMONNAME. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 22:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 22:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – The vast majority of scholarly sources appear to refer to the subject as N. P. Williams (with the exception of those encyclopedias that always use full names, of course). And as far as I can see, N. P. Williams was the only name under which the subject published during his lifetime. This primary usage is also reflected in all of the English-language bibliographic databases I've seen (e.g., WorldCat Identities lccn-nr96004006, LCCN nr96-4006, VIAF 294751047).

@Frayae: On what basis is the request being contested? 142.160.89.97 (talk) 23:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The three main sources all use his full name.

WILLIAMS, Norman Powell (1883 - 1943), Lady Margaret Professor of Divinity in the University of Oxford, and Canon of Christ Church since 1927; Treasurer of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford, since 1936; Subdean, 1939; Proctor in Convocation of Canterbury for the University of Oxford, 1936, theologians, theologians. (2011). Who Was Who, Who Was Who.
Cross, F., & Livingstone, E. (2005). Williams, Norman Powell (1883–1943). The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church.
Kemp, E. (2004). Williams, Norman Powell. Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
As do the National Archives (UK).

— Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 23:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm well aware that those three sources (Cross & Livingstone 2005, Kemp 2004, and "Williams, Rev. Norman Powell" 2007) use Williams' full name, Frayae – as you can see, I was the one who added all of them!

As I pointed out in my first sentence, I was excluding those encyclopedias that almost always use full names for subjects. Their using Williams' full name is not an indication that it is his common name as they make a point of not necessarily using subjects' common names where they differ from their full names. While the use of other encyclopedias in determining common usage can be helpful, I trust that we would agree that it is not helpful where their house style directly contradicts ours on the matter at hand (a fact which serves as the basis of WP:SSF).

The fact that it is a matter of house style in the case of the encyclopedias is best evidenced by Kemp 2004 given that the bishop who wrote it also served as the sole editor of Kemp 1954, a compilation of Wiliams' writings along with a memoir, which uses the name N. P. Williams. There is no reason why he would switch to using the full name if not for the purpose of conforming to the house style. Also, why did you exclude Kemp 1954 from what you presented as a comprehensive list of the "main sources" for the article but include Cross & Livingstone 2005 when they're listed alongside one another in the further reading section, Frayae?

Regarding the link to The National Archives database you provided, that which applied to the encyclopedias applies equally here. The database appears to even use full names for Clive Staples Lewis (C. S. Lewis) and John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (J. R. R. Tolkien), two individuals who are almost never referred to as such in practice. Once again, this is a source that appears to have a house style that precludes usage of common names where they differ from full names.

All that being said, if you are looking for other sources using the name N. P. Williams (in addition to what looks like everything Williams has written), though, I would point you to: Alsford 1987, pp. 25, 34, 41, 264, 336; Beaken 2012, pp. 162–163, 171; Browning 2007; Burnaby 1959, p. 12; Chapman 2017, pp. 31, 40; Cook 1918, p. 145; Currie 1964, p. 197; Davage 2017, p. 525; Gray 1952, p. 148; Hein 2007, p. 6; Kingston 1963, p. 221; Kirkby 1983; Lightbourn 1960, p. 352; Murray 1933, p. 113; Parker 1950, p. 91; Ramsey 2009, pp. 103, 122, 177; "University Changes" 2013; and Wirenius 2017, p. 284, for examples. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 02:32, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

Alsford, Sally Elizabeth (1987). Sin as a Problem of Twentieth Century Systematic Theology (PhD thesis). Durham, England: Durham University. Retrieved 16 October 2018. {{cite thesis}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Beaken, Robert (2012). Cosmo Lang: Archbishop in War and Crisis. London: I.B. Tauris. ISBN 978-0-85773-128-9. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Browning, W. R. F. (30 May 2007). "The Revd Professor John Macquarrie". Church Times. London. Retrieved 16 October 2018. {{cite news}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Burnaby, John (1959). "Original Sin". Theology. 62 (463): 11–17. doi:10.1177/0040571X5906246303. ISSN 2044-2696. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Chapman, Mark (2017). "The Evolution of Anglican Theology, 1910–2000". In Morris, Jeremy (ed.). The Oxford History of Anglicanism. Volume IV: Global Western Anglicanism, c. 1910–present. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 25–49. doi:10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199641406.003.0002. ISBN 978-0-19-964140-6. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Cook, E. Albert (1918). "Anglican Discussions on Doctrine and Church Union". The American Journal of Theology. 22 (1): 145–150. doi:10.1086/479911. ISSN 1550-3283. JSTOR 3155884. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Currie, Robert (1964). "Power and Principle: The Anglican Prayer Book Controversy, 1927–1930". Church History. 33 (2): 192–205. doi:10.2307/3162980. ISSN 1755-2613. JSTOR 3162980. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Cross, F. L.; Livingstone, E. A., eds. (2005). "Williams, Norman Powell". The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (rev. 3rd ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/acref/9780192802903.001.0001. ISBN 978-0-19-280290-3. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Davage, William (2017). "The Congress Movement: The High-Water Mark of Anglo-Catholicism". In Brown, Stewart J.; Nockles, Peter; Pereiro, James (eds.). The Oxford Handbook of the Oxford Movement. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 517–529. doi:10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199580187.013.41. ISBN 978-0-19-958018-7. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Gray, Francis (1952). "The Apostolic Succession as an Ecumenical Issue: An Anglican View". The Ecumenical Review. 4 (2): 139–150. ISSN 0013-0796. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Hein, David (2007). Geoffrey Fisher: Archbishop of Canterbury, 1945–1961. Eugene, Oregon: Pickwick Publications. ISBN 978-1-63087-828-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Kemp, E. W., ed. (1954). N.P. Williams: Sermons and Addresses, Compiled with a Memoir. London: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

——— (2004). "Williams, Norman Powell (1883–1943)". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/36927. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Kingston, F. Temple (1963). "The Law of Nature and the Natural Law". The Dalhousie Review. 43 (2): 220–225. hdl:10222/62703. ISSN 0011-5827. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Kirkby, Gresham (1983). "Kingdom Come: The Catholic Faith and Millennial Hopes". In Leech, Kenneth; Williams, Rowan (eds.). Essays Catholic and Radical. London: Bowerdean Press. Retrieved 16 October 2018. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Lightbourn, Francis C. (1960). "Review of An Era in Anglican Theology: From Gore to Temple by Arthur Michael Ramsey". Historical Magazine of the Protestant Episcopal Church. 29 (4): 352–354. ISSN 2377-5289. JSTOR 42974540. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Murray, D. L. (1933). "The Oxford Movement One Hundred Years After". University of Toronto Quarterly. 3 (1): 110–115. ISSN 1712-5278. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Parker, T. H. L. (1950). "The Church of England and Calvin". Theology. 53 (357): 91–94. doi:10.1177/0040571X5005335703. ISSN 2044-2696. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Ramsey, Arthur Michael (2009) [1960]. An Era in Anglican Theology: From Gore to Temple; The Development of Anglican Theology Between Lux Mundi and the Second World War, 1889–1939. Eugene, Oregon: Wipf and Stock. ISBN 978-1-60608-692-6. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

"University Changes". The Church of England Newspaper. No. 6187. London. 28 July 2013. p. 9. ISSN 0964-816X.

"Williams, Rev. Norman Powell". Who Was Who. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 2007. doi:10.1093/ww/9780199540884.013.U233496.

Wirenius, John F. (2017). "'Not Charity But Justice': Charles Gore, Workers, and the Way". Journal of Catholic Legal Studies. 50 (1): 279–296. ISSN 1559-7962. Retrieved 16 October 2018. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.