Talk:Mu'awiya II

Islam Low‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Syria Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility (assessed as Low-importance).

Arab world

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article was nominated for deletion on 23 November 2015. The result of the discussion was keep.

consistent transliteration needed

cross-posted to Talk:Muawiya, Talk:Muawiyah I, and Talk:Muawiya II

The title of the article for Muawiyah I uses a transliteration that includes a final 'h', while the titles of Muawiya II and the disambiguation page Muawiya do not. I don't know which is more correct, if either, but they should at least be consistent. —Charles P. (Mirv) 18:39, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

The article does cite sources. The problem is that whoever wrote the text did not use the currently favoured method of citation.-- Toddy1 (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violations

According to Copyvio Detector, the article has copyright violations issue. Saff V. (talk) 08:34, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What are you claiming that the article is a copyright violation of?

The link you posted said: "No Violation", "0.0%", "No matches found." Did you mean a different link?-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:53, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please see previous revision. Also, I corrected the above link. Saff V. (talk) 09:16, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Have you considered that the site copied its contents from Wikipedia?

The site you identified has a posting dated 9 February 2013.
The version of this article on 21 November 2012 is pretty much the same.

It is fairly obvious which site copied which.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This site is unreliable source.Saff V. (talk) 06:50, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This site copied from Wikipedia.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:22, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Saff, have you tried reading that "unreliable source"? If you go to the bottom of the identical text, you'll find the following notice: Modified source: http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiya.II. In other words: that website has copied from wikipedia and NOT "wikipedia has copied from that website" - HyperGaruda (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On a second thought, much of the previous content appears to be a fabrication added by an anonymous IP. This IP referred to "sources" like Al Nasab (890-949) in his History of the Wars and Lewis Joseph in his article "Islamic Historiography during the Ummayyad period 661-750", neither of which turned up on Google. So kudos to Saff for removing the unsourced stuff, but BOO! to Saff for using copyvio as a reason and removing the few bits that actually were sourced (including the sources themselves). - HyperGaruda (talk) 09:31, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dubiously or unsourced content restored

Well... <sarc>that's just great.</sarc> I've worked my butt off to recreate a well-sourced article with fancy infoboxes, and then this anonymous IP reverts it back to the largely unsourced hoax. Toddy1 and Saff V., what do you say? Should we go back to the sourced version, or are we going to wait and hope for someone to add sources to the current state, even though this story has been practically source-less since 2006? - HyperGaruda (talk) 20:49, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do not mind if you revert back to your version, if you make a list here of the various sourcing issues that your version eliminates. That way we have a record that we can point people at if they come back at us.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm putting the problematically sourced content in the following collapse box:

Summary of problematically sourced content from an ealier revision

Born on [exactly] 28 March 661 - unsourced
Story of how Muawiya I heard of Muawiya II's birth on the day of the former's accession
Alleged source: Al Nasab (890-949) in his History of the Wars
Muawiya II was 13 years old when he died. This means Muawiya must have been born in 671 when Yazid I his father was 25 years old
Alleged source: al-Tabari
Growing up only at the palace; taught by private teachers.
Alleged source: Al-Habah (854-905)'s Court of the Righteous Caliphs
Muawiya II's truce (683) between the Umayyads and Ibn az-Zubayr. - unsourced
Muawiya II's marriage in <677 (died in 677), 678 (divorced), 680 (div), and 683 (div) - unsourced
Muawiya passed 3 laws; reverted once he died: - all unsourced
- the rights of women should be protected
- no man should be put to death because of a crime
- charity tax should be made compulsory
Reigned for 40 days before he died.
Alleged source: al-Tabari
Muawiya II refused open war against Ibn az-Zubayr and Ibn az-Zubayr refused to be Muawiya's heir, for he "shall not be a nursemaid"
Alleged source: Al Nasab (890-949)
Died a few weeks after abdication. - unsourced

I see that I had overlooked the sourced paragraph about the ghawth, so I'll add that to the sourced version. And if someone is interested in re-adding all of the above, please note down sources according to WP:CITE, i.e. with at least author, title (preferably both original AND translated), page etc. so that others are able to check the sources. - HyperGaruda (talk) 07:44, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]