Talk:Modern capitalist society

Modern society — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.116.122.73 (talk) 13:31, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scope[edit]

How is this topic distinct from, say, Criticism of capitalism? Where are the sources discussing a discrete "modern capitalist society" that is an independent concept from existing critique of capitalism? If it has overlap with an existing article and doesn't have an overabundance of sources to warrant treatment as a separate topic, it should be merged into an existing section. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 01:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: Several scholars cite modern capitalist society as a unique formation with a particular origins moment and ideological heritage, which is why I believe it should have its own article. Here are a few:

"After the English Civil War, fought on and off between 1642 and 1651, the first modern capitalist society emerged. Holland and Italian city-states had prospered through merchant capitalism in the late Middle Ages, but now in England there arose a version of capitalism that depended on rational calculation and systematic production, not simply on trade. A particular relationship arose between owner and worker, and a new class - a wage-earning class - emerged as the counterpart to the owners, also known as capitalists." Lundskow, George (2008). The Sociology of Religion: A Substantive and Transdisciplinary Approach. SAGE Publications. p. 97. ISBN 9781412937214.
"Dominant historical consensus locates the emergence of the first modern capitalist society in seventeenth-century England, but scholars continue to disagree over when and to what extent colonial American economies can be described as capitalist, and even whether there is such a thing as a colonial economy." Burnham, Michelle (2008). "Textual Investments: Economics and Colonial American Literatures". In Castillo, Susan; Schweitzer, Ivy (eds.). A Companion to the Literatures of Colonial America. Wiley. p. 68. ISBN 9781405152082.
"The Civil War thus becomes in some sense a 'bourgeois revolution', a crucial step in England's transition from a traditional 'feudal' to a modern 'capitalist' society. It is linked to the emergence of a new class, made up in some versions of new men, in others as transformed sections of earlier elites. This was a capitalist class concerned to maximize its profits from agriculture, and involved in industry and trade." Cust, Richard; Hughes, Ann (2014). Conflict in Early Stuart England: Studies in Religion and Politics 1603-1642. Taylor & Francis. pp. 2–3. ISBN 9781317885023.
"...the rewriting of history 'forged a new pedigree for the concept of democracy' traceable from Magna Carta, through the Glorious Revolution of 1688, and the Founding Fathers of the American constitution–all largely aristocratic and elitist events with an absent or passive people–taking precedence over Athens, the Levellers and Diggers, and the Chartists and many others of the 1830s and 1840s. In this heritage, political rights in modern capitalist society no longer had the meaning and potency of citizenship in Athens." Good, Kenneth (2014). Trust in the Capacities of the People, Distrust in Elites. Lexington Books. p. 16. ISBN 9781498502443.
"The idea that for women the early modern transition from a mediaeval economy to a modern capitalist society represented the loss of a mediaeval golden age is too simplistic. There is, of course, some validity in the thesis promoted by pioneers of women's history like Alice Clark that a more capitalist economy tended towards the exclusion of women from many areas of employment, but this usually required the conjunction of adverse economic circumstances." Peters, Christine (2003). Women in Early Modern Britain, 1450-1640. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 58. ISBN 9780230212787.
"It is patterned on the long and painful adjustment process by which Europe was transformed from a traditional society to a modern capitalist society. During that period, social and political upheaval caused the displacement of many members of society as traditional social bonds were destroyed, and as the monetary poverty that manifests in capitalist societies was created." Kregel, Jan (2013). "The social impact of globalization". In Dasgupta, Byasdeb (ed.). Non-Mainstream Dimensions of Political Global Economy. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 9781135050757.

With these considerations made, I remain open on the subject of merging the article where more appropriate if that is more agreeable. The modernity section on capitalism (which is described as needing expansion) could also perhaps link to this article through a "Main Article" template. Thank you. --Xicanx (talk) 05:43, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, @Xicanx and Czar: I confess I am not convinced by this demonstration and think this is original research, sorry. I was even tempted to propose the page for deletion. Merging what seems to have taken time to research and write (in the pages you think appropriate) seems like a good idea, yes. Yours,--Joe McNeill (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

At the very least it makes sense to preemptively merge since there is strong overlap. Then depending on what is left, we can discuss whether there is enough cause for a standalone article. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 01:45, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]