Talk:List of international prime ministerial trips made by Keir Starmer

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List criteria adherence

According to the first sentence of the lead, this article This is the list of international prime ministerial trips made by Keir Starmer, who has served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom since 5 July 2024. According to the second sentence, Keir Starmer has made one international trip to one country during his premiership.

They are the two reasons why I removed the two sections which were speculating about trips in the future - as they do not comply with the list criteria. Does anyone disagree? -- DeFacto (talk). 14:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that unconfirmed trips should not be listed, however I think sourced scheduled trips are completely relevant to the page. In terms of the multilateral meetings, I understand completely why you don’t agree with lots of the information in the section, I think it would be better to remove the future info, rather than a blanket removal of the whole table. The table is used on just about every list of international trips made by a leader. None of the others have had complaints about them, I fail to see why this specific section breaches the rule but the others are fair content. StevoLaker (talk) 11:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with StevoLaker, they follow the format in pages such as List of international presidential trips made by Joe Biden and many other articles in the Lists of 21st-century trips category. 1234567jack (talk) 12:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@StevoLaker, you reinstated out-of-scope content which I had removed. In your edit summary you said I was removing relevant soured information based on your own interpretation of guidelines that are not shared by other users.

The inclusion criteria in the lead of this list article say This is the list of international prime ministerial trips made by Keir Starmer, who has served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom since 5 July 2024. Keir Starmer has made two international trips to two countries during his premiership. The key here is "trips made", which means in the past, and is confirmed by the "[he] has made two international trips".

Please provide a link and/or quotes from the guidelines you suggest say that the future plans and speculation you restored are relevant soured information, despite the fact that they are clearly outside the scope of the list inclusion criteria for this list. -- DeFacto (talk). 14:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, if a reliable source states that Starmer is travelling abroad on a scheduled international trip then it is not speculation. Secondly future trips that will later be added to the list upon travel are definitely topically relevant to the only Wikipedia page about Starmer’s international trips. It follows common practice in line with other list of international trips by leaders pages. StevoLaker (talk) 15:13, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are confusing 'normal' topic-based articles (like Keir Starmer, Premiership of Keir Starmer, etc.) with this list article. In the former, well sourced information about likely future events may well be accepted, but in the latter (the list type we have here) content scope is specified by the article title and in the list's acceptance criteria in its lead. The title and inclusion criteria here clearly limit the scope to trips that have already happened.

What happens in any other article is irrelevant.

If you want to change the article title and/or change the list inclusion criteria you'll need to get a consensus on the talkpage. For now though, anything that hasn't happed yet is out of scope here. -- DeFacto (talk). 19:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It states what I said in thelist criteria in the second paragraph: “Criteria for inclusion should factor in encyclopedic and topical relevance”. If I have misunderstood this then I won’t undo any removals aside from the multilateral meeting table. As while only one meeting has happened it should still remain (aside from future meetings) as I’ll update it as meetings occur.

If you are still intent on removing this content, then I strongly advise that you start tackling it on more popular pages, such as List of international presidential trips made by Joe Biden. Most of these pages use the format from then, and will quickly return here if you do not tackle those pages. StevoLaker (talk) 19:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you misunderstood the guidance. The example given shows that bit means the trips made should not include, for instance, if a short unscheduled stop is made in a third country, that a prime ministerial trip was made to that third country.

What does the "multilateral meeting table" add to the list that isn't already in the list (apart from the out-of-scope planned future trips)? -- DeFacto (talk). 20:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s a useful visual aid for the most high profile annual trips, particularly when the list gets excessive. However I suppose it’s not that beneficial at this point in time. StevoLaker (talk) 20:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update map of visits

The map of where Sir Keir Starmer hasn’t been updated since July, would it be wise to update it? 185.176.244.79 (talk) 18:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]