Talk:List of awards and nominations received by Girls' Generation/Archive 1

Archive 1

Let's talk it out

There seems to be some edit warring going on with this page recently. My personal stance is that much of this page is missing reference or cites bad sources like allkpop, which can be allowed for music program wins...if the win is worthy of note in the first place. Honestly a lot of these awards look meaningless and without reference or a prose mentioning significance it seems like they might be. I remember this group winning the you-tube awards, as it was controversial, but it gets lost on this page and is simply another part of a meaningless mess. I feel awards pages should be about quality not quantity because a thousand raspberry awards do not even equal 1 Oscar. Also I don't understand how the prose can state specific revenue and sales facts with zero references, to me that is absurdly lazy as the person would have had to look the information up then decided not to reference it. There fore I'm removing most of it. Thank you to any who actually look at talk. Peachywink (talk) 15:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Music program awards

Random86 TerryAlex I'm rather skeptical about how music program wins (Inkigayo, Music Bank...) can be included on this list? What do you think? HĐ (talk) 10:32, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I've become skeptical about them as well. In general, there needs to be a discussion about what awards should be included for Korean artists. Random86 (talk) 17:55, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

At one point in time, I thought it can just be summed up in a short paragraph within their main articles. Like how "Gee" won 9 times on Music Bank or how "Twinkle" won a triple crown. I consider these as two notable facts. But other than that, I don't see how they should be listed here either.--TerryAlex (talk) 18:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Wins/Nominations

Can someone clarify how are wins / nominations counted, if they won an award, should they also get +1 nomination, or is nomination only if they DONT win? Because, according to Template:Infobox K-pop artist awards, it reads "Nominations: This is the total number of awards the musical group or artist has been nominated for, but not won.", but there are constant edit wars and changes on pretty much all similar pages of k-pop artist awards and people keep adding nominations to infobox even if they won 86.58.36.235 (talk) 15:14, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Peachywink is correct—wins should be included in the nomination count. The problem is the wording of the template documentation. It needs to be changed to be in line with the rest of Wikipedia. The creator of the template was a newer editor, so he probably didn't realize he was going against convention in how he wrote that. Random86 (talk) 20:16, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

But the problem is, half of those awards on this page (SNSD) didnt even have official nominees list, pretty much all awards in "Other awards" were just given to them without any shortlist of candidates or something, so you cant add +1 nomination, for example for "iQiYi All-Star Carnival" or "Korean Ministry of Culture and Tourism", since there were no nominees list for that (or maybe it was?) 86.58.36.235 (talk) 21:00, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

If you look at List of awards and nominations received by Taylor Swift, which is a featured list, this note is included: "Awards in certain categories do not have prior nominations and only winners are announced by the jury. For simplification and to avoid errors, each award in this list has been presumed to have had a prior nomination." Other featured lists have similar notes, such as Lorde. Random86 (talk) 21:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Makes sense, we should "steal" that note and add it here too + add all nominations then 86.58.36.235 (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Music show awards

Total: 117 (including Taetiseo) — http://news.donga.com/View?gid=73762063&date=20150921 — Simon (talk) 15:00, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Criteria for award inclusion

As there are several minor awards/categories that can be included, please be noted that only notable awards (including wikilink on Wikipedia or recognised by multiple media outlets) are acceptable. — Simon (talk) 10:30, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Per above, I have reverted inclusion of non-notable awards added on 18 February:

• Gallup Korea is just a survey, not an actual awards
• Yahoo Buzz Awards gets zero media coverage outside of Yahoo itself, fails WP:GNG
• Bugs Music Awards – same as above, zero coverage outside of Bugs site + Bugs chart is a WP:BADCHART anyway
• Hanteo Awards – another primary source, most likely not covered anywhere
• Monkey3 Awards – just a popularity song ranking of Monkey3 chart (WP:BADCHART) and not an actual awards show
• Soompi Awards pre-2017 were not notable as there was no coverage from reliable media Snowflake91 (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Awards are still awards regardless of how some individuals measure their value, otherwise we should include only grand prizes (daesangs) and/or risk the music show wins out of every k-pop group's page, since they're pretty much meaningless outside of Korea. All of these awards were listed on other big Wikipedias (in this case, the korean and the french) and the sources linked were exactly the same, so there shouldn't be any problem with the addition of them - in fact, there were at least 10 other awards that could've been included (like the Dosirak from 2010), but weren't due to the lack of sources. Keep in mind that the person reading this Wikipedia page doesn't care if the award is a disk daesang from GDA or a minor prize given by a foreign media outlet, they just want a list of all the awards and nominations received by Girls' Generation (which is literally the title of this page, in case you haven't realized yet). Don't let your subjective criteria and personal bias be in the way of someone's access to information.

Also, please check the sources before writing anything. You claimed that the Bugs Music Awards got no coverage outside of the Bugs chart, but the source I linked is one of the biggest web portals in Korea (if I recall correctly, second to Naver nation-wise). You also claimed that Bugs and Monkey3 are bad charts, but they weren't mentioned anywhere on the Deprecated Charts list (which is a list for charts that shouldn't be used for sales, not awards) and said that the Hanteo award was "most likely" not covered anywhere (which a quick Naver search will prove false), but ignored that the source is Hanteo itself, with a big "Singer Award" written in english right at the top of the page. Finally, claimed that Soompi Awards weren't notable before 2017 (which isn't true, Soompi itself has been the most reliable international source for kpop-related news for over a decade and its awards were reported by dozens of other websites in several languages), but deleted a 2018 award. At least make your arguments make sense. — User:Vowlenhart (talk) 16:09, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Not correct, "awards are still awards", ALL awards needs to pass WP:GNG to get included, otherwise I can hold my own awards on the blog with 20 people voting and will add it to the article, because awards are still awards right. Other Wikipedias (French etc.) are meaningless on English wikipedia so its completely irrelevant what other Wikipedias have listed, rules are different on every project. Well, add a secondary sources then, you have included only primary sources (hanteo, bugs, soompi etc.). And no, Soompi is not a reliable source at all, see WP:KO/RS. And about Bugs and monkey3 charts, just because they are not directly listed at wp:badcharts, it doesnt mean they are not a single vendor charts – they are, because the only "non–bad" chart in Korea is Gaon. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:17, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll make sure to include as many secondary sources as I can for each award so there will be no complaints about the inclusion of new awards. Just let me know why Bugs, Monkey3 and Gallup shouldn't be included right away despite being covered by Nate (nate.com) and Asia Economy (asiae.co.kr).

See first post in this section by Simon, it says "As there are several minor awards/categories that can be included, please be noted that only notable awards (including wikilink on Wikipedia or recognised by multiple media outlets) are acceptable." There needs to be multiple media reports about the awards, and not just one sentence which barely mentions that the awards were given, but a little bit broader coverage. Snowflake91 (talk) 16:35, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

As I have noticed an edit war going on, please settle stuff here before editing, or else either this page will be granted protection from vandalism, or vandals themselves will be blocked from editing. Regarding the criteria for awards inclusion, I stand by the viewpoint as stated above. — HĐ (talk) 11:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Users involved in this section might be interested in joining the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture#Are_music_show_wins_notable?. Redalert2fan (talk) 12:03, 13 April 2019 (UTC)