Talk:List of Delta Kappa Epsilon chapters/Archive 1

Archive 1

Creation

I created this page in accordance with Wikipedia policy of not having an entire chapter listing on a fraternity's article page. Jmlk17 19:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

rating

I gave this list a stub-class rating because it is an imcomplete list. Acidskater 09:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for administrator attention

Complaint

User is clearly demonstrating OWNERSHIP of all of his articles. Will not others to modify — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhiAlpha3000 (talk • contribs) 15:16, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

PhiAlpha3000 Sigh. First of all, this article is just one of the ones that I edit. Some of the edits might be appropriate if referenced and most importantly *not* in all capital letters. I'll be happy to work with you in determining which of these would be appropriate, or, if you prefer, I will be happy to put you in contact with another member of the Fraternities and Sororities Wikiproject.Naraht (talk) 18:33, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

PhiAlpha3000, observing from the sidelines as another experienced editor, please do not assume bad faith. Our project group works diligently to improve fraternity articles and the edits you complain about are part of that process. Naraht is correct in reverting the use of ALL CAPS, which goes against WP's standard style guide. We update articles regularly using a standard template and format here, too. Frankly, this list article needs improvement, following one of the many examples we have worked on. If you have references, please add them in the correct citation format. (University portal pages are OK, but not chapter-owned websites that are too prone to failure or becoming virus vectors.) These WP list articles report facts, not opinions. Neither of us are anti-Greek, or anti-newbie, so your assumption of bad faith is clearly incorrect. We just don't want poor modifications. You might start by creating a User page for yourself (at Creating User:PhiAlpha3000, and reviewing some of the other Greek pages which the Fraternity and Sorority Project keeps track of. Jax MN (talk) 20:48, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Would prefer that.

Big error that stands out is Vanderbilt chapter. I was founded at The University of Nashville but the entire university failed due to civil war. When Vanderbilt was established the petitioned for that charter. With LSU, the chapter was initially Centenary of Louisiana and in a similar case it folded during the Civil War. It stayed dormant until 1922 when the Friars at LSU petioned for it. Interesting case exists now...Centenary group wants it back. LSU was recently permanently banned by nationals for hazing. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 21:42, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

PhiAlpha3000 if that could be referenced, that would certainly belong here. However, personally, I'd be surprised if the Centenary group got it.Naraht (talk) 12:30, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

House of horrors: Allegations after LSU DKE members' arrests point to fraternity code of silence | Crime/Police | theadvocate.com 72.227.115.125 (talk) 21:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

I've completed reformatting of the list, updating to our Project standard. This includes DTS and LANG templates, added the column(s) for city and state/province, and reviewed against the Baird's list where I found several missing chapters. More work can be done to note predecessor locals within the notes. But PhiAlpha3000, you will see that some of those ancillary notes that previously took up column space have been pushed into references. Deke's HQ can do as they please, but looking at the historical precedents, I likewise doubt that Centenary has a case to take over the LSU chapter name (again). It may actually cause a negative brand impact.

You might want to check the chapter and colony count. There appear to be more chapters and less colonies. I didn't review this against the Deke website. A few of the dates are still unknown, but records from the 2019 Deke Quarterly or from Deke HQ may provide these. Jax MN (talk) 23:11, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Delta Kappa Epsilon

Current Disciplinary Status: Rescission of University Registration

Extended content

Council: Interfraternity Council (IFC) Date of Incident: Fall, 2018 Location: On-campus Policies/ Code of Conduct Violated: Complicity Hazing Endangerment Coercive Behavior Disorderly Conduct Failure to Comply Notice Date: 8/5/19 Outcome: Suspension/Rescission of University Registration 8/5/2019-5/31/2029 The organization: may not sponsor, cosponsor, or participate in any and all social, intramural, athletic, or other similar activities on or off campus; may not solicit any new members or pledges; may not initiate any new members; Organizations that maintain a residence or meeting facility on University property may not occupy or utilize that facility unless and until the organization returns as a registered student organization. Only initiated members may reside in the facility and after the colony has been chartered. Any current members residing in the facility must be out of the facility by August 5, 2019. Additional stipulations of the Suspension/Rescission of Registration or qualifications for registering in the future will be outlined below. Delta Kappa Epsilon may petition the Dean of Students and Greek Life for an early return if all outcomes and House Corporation Commitments have been met after May 31, 2027. Any petition to return to the University, whether early or otherwise, is at the sole discretion of the University. In order to petition the University for recognition, Delta Kappa Epsilon and any affiliated chapter must meet at least the following terms and conditions. Delta Kappa Epsilon must be in compliance with the IFC Expansion Policy and Greek Life New/Returning Fraternity and Sorority Expansion/Re-Organization/Re-Chartering/Re-Activation Policy. The organization must meet with the Office of the Dean of Students to develop and agree upon a two year plan to ensure the chapter's successful reintegration into LSU's Greek community. Delta Kappa Epsilon must cease the practice of conducting a separate initiation for the Friars, and Friars may not exist as a secret society or subgroup of the chapter. There may be no Friars symbols on the house. Friars history may continue to be taught as part of Zeta Zeta history at LSU. There may be no socials, on or off campus, sponsored or co-sponsored by any group of undergraduate members operating as or representing themselves as Delta Kappa Epsilon, the Zeta Zeta Chapter, or Friars through the date of return. Delta Kappa Epsilon and Zeta Zeta Chapter must have a zero balance owed to the University for any outstanding debt. An alumni chapter advisory team must be selected and approved by Delta Kappa Epsilon International Fraternity and the University. Upon return to LSU, Delta Kappa Epsilon will provide a staff member, 25 years of age or older and separate from a House Director, who will live in the facility and work with the fraternity on a full-time basis for not less than one academic year. If Delta Kappa Epsilon Fraternity is unable to fulfill this requirement, Delta Kappa Epsilon may petition a potential candidate to Greek Life who is less than 25 years of age for approval. Any references to or implements of hazing or hazing paraphernalia must have been removed from the chapter house including the third floor, or chapter room, and the side porch, referred to as “Friars porch.” The chapter room will also not be a secret room. A walk through prior to chapter re-opening will be conducted by representatives of the Office of the Dean of Students for verification. The new member education period will be restricted to four weeks, in perpetuity. Delta Kappa Epsilon International representatives will conduct the new member education program for the first two classes (one academic year). A Delta Kappa Epsilon International representative will conduct chapter initiations for the first three years (six semesters). A Delta Kappa Epsilon International staff member will be present and coordinate all initiation activities for the chapter. No animals will be allowed as part of any Delta Kappa Epsilon initiation, ceremony or function in perpetuity. There will be mandatory Deke University (officer training) attendance for the first four years and the chapter must send at least two delegates to Convention (first two Conventions). The chapter will be required to participate in a 365 recruitment (as allowed by LSU policy) and participate in any IFC-organized recruitment activity. The chapter will submit a weekly report to Greek Life during the first year of return, and may be required to do so for years 2 and 3 at the University’s discretion. 72.227.115.125 (talk) 07:52, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

https://dke.org/ 72.227.115.125 (talk) 08:00, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Doubt it too. The guidelines laid out on LSU are requiring no previous ZETA ZETA on new alumni board. Both nationals and LSU board wanted them gone. Our nationals came down hard on them. The existing alumni board leader a current Baton Rouge attorney tried to play if off and blame the victim. Nine arrests and three years later it's still ugly. All the Anti HAZING laws going through in Louisiana and a death at PHI DELTA THETA made nationals quiver when the word Louisiana is mentioned. Tulane got thrown off in 2000s for a watermelon party. They're have strong alumni...they're not coming back so why allow LSU. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 10:16, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

PhiAlpha3000, I've been in correspondence with Grant Burnyeat from Deke HQ. He's from UBC, and mentioned he'd like to connect with you. Jax MN (talk) 22:30, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Not sure who that is. I Google his name and it comes up stating he's the national director which isn't true. Somebody being a creep. Now if he wants to talk about his time riding the Wooley Goat be legit. By the way Phi Alpha isn't my badge number it's my work badge number. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 23:19, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

It is always best to think carefully about the benefits and costs of any post to any social media sites. If there is ever any doubt a chapter or individual should consult their executive council or chapter consultant for advice and guidance. The best question to ask yourself before posting is if this is a good representation of myself as a Gentlemen, Scholar, and Jolly-good Fellow. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 23:38, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

We've corresponded via email, directly with the national office domain. He's the Chair of the History and Archives Committee of the Fraternity. May have an additional title too. I had deduced he was from the UBC chapter, originally. To your point, I didn't place his email here, figuring you could go direct to HQ with an inquiry. Jax MN (talk) 23:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Are you sure it wasn't Doug or Craig. I would say it's Craig PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 23:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

He responded via his gmail address to my inquiry at HQ. May be a volunteer. Jax MN (talk) 23:57, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Found him in Quarterly. Hes a judge out of Kelowna, BC. Current president....old timer. Ill have to meet his acqaintence ...nationals meeting was in Charlotte two weeks ago. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 00:07, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

(←) I asked him to comment on six items, which he is working on now. (I'm heading out for the evening, so this will be my last message on this thread tonight.) The items are:

1. Several chapters have missing dates of re-establishment or of closure. These are noted with a “?” and a partial date, if we have it.
2. We note several instances where a chapter re-used an older name, often a casualty of the Civil War. (Gamma, Zeta Zeta, etc.) Please check that these are accurately listed.
3. Specific to this, we note that Baird’s Archive has your third iteration at Northwestern, in Evanston, as taking on a new name that had been previously used by a chapter that died out in 1861. Is this correct? --You granted TWO names over the years to your chapters on that campus?
4. Also, the Sewanee chapter, Tau Delta, appears to have a name reused from an earlier, short-lived Tennessee chapter at Union University, in Jackson, TN.
5. Did you move the Gamma chapter from U of Nashville to Vandy? Or was this a re-issue? This is a technical point, but would change the page text.
6. Finally, the introductory body text of the page says there are 55 active chapters and 14 colonies. I believe these numbers are old. Would you update that lede section? It also says there are four current Canadian chapters, but I believe this should be seven, correct?

Meanwhile, Naraht is working on a couple of cleanup items, and I won't touch the article text until that notification is removed at the top of the section. Jax MN (talk) 00:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

That reuse situation only happened like three times. And it's only three times Gamma,Zeta Zeta, and Iota. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 05:51, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Additional source

The 175th anniversary issue (2019) of the deke quarterly would also be a good source. Some information not relevant such as whether or not they intend to return. (and I don't have to crane my neck sideways) May not be *completely* up to date, but bringing the article to 2019 would be a good start.

• https://issuu.com/dkequarterly/docs/the_deke_quarterly_9e27292f54d0e0

Naraht (talk) 20:45, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Finally an impartial editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.115.125 (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

https://dke.org/ 72.227.115.125 (talk) 08:01, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Not sure why the comment.Naraht (talk) 13:36, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Naraht, the intermediate inactivity report on McGill comes from the Baird's Archive listing.

You have an errant additional pipe above the Tau Lambda listing. (fixed)

The Centre College listing comes from Baird's, too, which is likely from a yearbook. It shows an installation date of 1885 rather than 1901. I suppose it is a coin toss which one is correct, as both references seem solid. The predecessor local in that case is from 1882. (fixed)

Thanks for the other updated dates. I see you caught one of my 1800/1900 typos. (fixed) Jax MN (talk) 22:23, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Oklahoma State is actually dormant now but nationals is going back this fall. They posted something on the webpage. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 00:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

https://dke.org/start-a-dke-chapter/web page.

Bought half way down page PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 00:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I went ahead and added OK State and Villanova, as these are noted as expansion groups on the national website. It's too early to add the prospective interest groups where expansion hasn't begun. By the way, rather than "nationals" you ought to use "our National", or "HQ"... Using the word 'nationals' like this is a persistent error among collegiate Greeks, and national staff from all the GLOs struggle to correct that term. The grammar police roll their eyes.

I hope, too, you've watched and enjoyed our process of page improvement, all based on quality citations of references. Neither of the two more senior editors who've worked on this page are Dekes. Jax MN (talk) 00:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

It's nice to see people take an active role. Wish our nationals was this active. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 01:20, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

After my sophomore year I went AWOL half the time anyways. So I'm not holding that against you. 🤣 PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 01:25, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Jax your not a Phi Epsilon? You and Naraht would have been great public relation people. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 01:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Nope; but thanks for the compliment. Jax MN (talk) 05:51, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I joined as a freshman in college. I looks like your friend at National may have joined after graduation. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 06:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I think we may have overwhelmed the brother at Nationals.

And after your 30th or 40th Greek Letter Organization page that an editor has worked on, we get pretty good at it. :)

I have no problem with putting extension efforts here. It does appear though that chapter letters are assigned pretty early in the extension process, so maybe use the assigning of letters (for groups which have never been chapters) as the guide as to what belongs here. Naraht (talk) 12:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I'd noticed, while setting up this table, that some of the years cited for installation were actually dates of colonization, and not the charter date. I'd fixed some of them, then Naraht, you had adjusted many more while including month and day. I think some of the latter-formed chapters on this list may still be in order of colonization, not installation (which is our standard), so I'd advise you just stay the course. Some tables for other national groups have a separate column for colonization date, but as a practical matter I've moved to include just the colonization year within a references, also noting whether these evolved from pure colonies or from the absorption of a local. I like this latter approach better, as it is cleaner; for similar reasons my more recent work omits separate columns for installation date and years of activity. Frankly, we don't need three columns with dates (Colony, Installation, years active). Jax MN (talk) 14:30, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Be happy you have Bairds to assist. The universities don't help either. IOTA claims the 1850s start date...and GAMMA claims the 1848 date (only existing chapters that are that old are PHI and PSI. PSI has been around continously but PHI was booted from 2010 to 2015 for being stupid. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 17:00, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Jax MN, PhiAlpha3000 Jax MN, at this point, I'm not sure I *want* to touch it until we get contacted by the guy from National, colony vs. charter dates are getting confusing. And I'm not sure if there is anything left I'd like to do until that point other than checking the dates of inactivity from the 1918 and making sure that those are there (Does that make sense to continue at this point?)

PhiAlpha3000, I'm not sure how the Universities can help/hurt. for some of the dates that far back, pretty much the only sources at the school would be yearbooks...Naraht (talk) 18:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Youd be suprised we have records at PSI tha go all the way back PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 19:12, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Alpha Delta chapter

Jax MN the situation with Northwestern really confuses me. I can find no sign of this in the 175th anniversary issue of their manual and Alpha Delta was *already* assigned to Washington and Jefferson, a chapter that while inactive, would be quite reasonable to return. Where is the reference for that, all I can find at Northwestern is that Chi Delta Chi went nationally to Delta Kappa Epsilon without the chapter name.Naraht (talk) 16:38, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

As to Northwestern, see the Delta Kappa Epsilon listing at the Baird's archive. I was reading it carefully, and saw something that rarely occurs, where Northwestern's chapter was assigned a second name (coinciding with its third chartering). And oddly, it didn't take the name of the local from which it had been revived in 2000, but picked a new name, and one that had been previously used by Deke at Jefferson. Now, this *could* be an error in the Archive, but perhaps only Deke HQ could confirm the facts; the 2019 Deke Quarterly notes in the body text a hopeful return of Delta Epsilon, but only mentions Alpha Delta in context of the long-closed chapter at Jefferson (now Washington and Jefferson).

Clarifying for readers: To the question about the original Alpha Delta chapter at Jefferson, as you see it was another of those dormant Civil War chapter names. --Long dormant. Rather than reserve it for a later return to Washington and Jefferson, the Archive says that Deke HQ appears to have allowed it to go to the revived Northwestern group. As I said, this could be an error in the Baird's Archive, and if so, there is a web form on the main page of the archive where the correction may be sent to them. Jax MN (talk) 17:17, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Reuse of chapter letters

In looking at the 175th anniversary magazine article, I noticed a few things about how reuse is handled.

• Gamma - chartered at University of Nashville, Revived at Vanderbilt. Note, University of Nashville was functionally dead by the time that the chapter was Revived
• Iota - chartered at Kentucky Military Institute, Revived when Central University of Kentucky merged with Centre College. I have no idea why the merger of the schools was the cause of the revival.
• Zeta Zeta - chartered at Centenary College (1858-1861), Revived at LSU after 14 years of work for revival. Not sure why a new charter would not have been acceptable. Also note, https://www.lsu.edu/greeks/join/greek_tiger/2018/2018_LSU_GreekTiger_web.pdf which indicates *15* years of work. and https://researchworks.oclc.org/archivegrid/data/230495042 and even https://web.archive.org/web/20180924014007/https://kappadke.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/DKE-EDUCATIONAL-MANUALOct-Edits.pdf (which indicates that the Friars group petitioned the DKE convention year after year.)
• Tau Delta - Chartered at Union University, Tau Delta name transfered to University of the South at its chartering in 1968. The Union University in Murphreesboro where it was formed had closed due to the war (and then restarted and died in the 1870s) and the new name was given to a merger school due to a *large* book donation by the son of the president of the old school. So whether the new UU is a descendent of the old is complicated. The letters were assigned to University of the South on that chapter's chartering. This one is actually listed as the name being transfered and the only example of a duplication of the DKE chapter roll.

So from DKE's perspective, Gamma, Iota and Zeta Zeta are of one type and Tau Delta another, I guess.

Also, for the difference between the original list and today. The chapter at University of Indiana was considered by some sources apparently to be a new one in 2000, (and is ordered that way in the chapter roll, but apparently was active from 1853 to 1855. So it moved *much* farther up our list. Naraht (talk) 17:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

It's really strange that the 1918 General Catalogue didn't list the pre-Civil War Indiana chapter. One would think that would have been listed as a point of pride, even if it only lasted two years. I note that the DePauw group (also in Indiana) was founded in 1866; could an error have crept in, where someone conflated the two? I wrote to the national historian for comment and a source. Jax MN (talk) 20:09, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

As for Zeta Zeta the petioned for several years for DKE charter because the wanted to be like the Tulane chapter. When they got the charter DKE Nationals allowed to as a reward to also keep initiating their members as Friars a local fraternity they had been. As part of their punishment time they lost this priveledge if they ever are allowed back. PhiAlpha3000 (talk) 10:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Iota rechartering

According to the General catalogue of Delta Kappa Epsilon, 1918 https://archive.org/details/generalcatalogue00delt/page/332/mode/2up , the first Delta Kappa Epsilon brothers of Iota started were in 1885! The location for Iota is given at Central University of Kentucky and the history (page n52) talks about the reorganization of Iota chapter being in 1885 [not 1901]. I hate to go against the 175th anniversary magazine, but I think that date is wrong! Naraht (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Good work sleuthing. Regarding "the first Delta Kappa Epsilon brothers of Iota started..." --Did you mean these were the first graduates? That wouldn't be accurate: The references' body text shows a 23-yr gap between a section of 1861 grads and 1884 grads, but it does list the earlier set of grads beginning on the preceding page. So that essentially meshes with the two phases of activity.

Also, see page IX of that 1918 book. It has the date of the Iota reorganization as June 9, 1885. But the original incarnation has only the year 1854 for its start. Jax MN (talk) 18:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I figured out the timing of Iota (2) from the 1918 Catalogue and Baird's Archive. I've adjusted the listing for Iota (2) accordingly, adding the June 9, 1885 date, and have updated the reference note. I shifted that chapter name to show its emergence in 1885. Jax MN (talk) 19:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Delta Psi at Indiana

Note the 1918 General Catalogue doesn't have Delta Psi at Indiana at all. Which means that the charter at Indiana (presuming it exists as the 175th anniversary document indicates) had been forgotten by 1918. (and it is oddly named as well, it appears that the first 25 chapters other than that are the single letters plus Alpha Alpha at Middlebury. A real mystery. (and the pledge manual mentioned above shows no mention of it, saying that Delta Psi was chartered in 2000. Naraht (talk) 18:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

See p. XXXIII, where a petitioning group is noted from the time of the 1911 convention called the Emanon Club at Indiana University. This petition was not acted upon. But the supposed pre-Civil War iteration of the IU chapter predates this by many decades.

(and it isn't like chapter lettering helps *that* much, in some fraternities if the list goes from Beta Lambda to Beta Nu in the list, there is a Beta Mu out there *somewhere*. My fraternity (Alpha Phi Omega) does intend to skip Alpha Phi Omega in the chapter lettering (so Alpha Phi Phi to Alpha Chi Alpha) and we are at about Alpha Eta something, so 30 years(?) away, other than than that, we use them all and only two are more than a year out of order.Naraht (talk) 23:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)