Talk:Liquorice (confectionery)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 August 2020 and 12 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RandelitoRand. Peer reviewers: Coldresonance.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Unusual death removal

Can the list of unusual deaths be removed? It seems unrelated to the see also list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:4700:2D30:A9E2:31EA:715E:AB2C (talk) 22:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

A news story about a man who died from eating very excessive amounts of liquorice candy was circulated widely and became well known. Even though it was not a good idea for him to eat so much of it, his death WAS caused by liquorice. So the "see also" entry makes sense. TooManyFingers (talk) 15:27, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Different flavours

Heh heh heh. As well as red, they do green, orange, yellow; all flavoured differently...but beware of the uber-tasty dark blue liquorice, flavoured raspberry. I once ate two seven-inch lengths and my poo turned green for three days. Needless to say, I never bought it again... Lady BlahDeBlah 22:51, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Now I'm envisioning a disgusting experiment which consists of a diet of blue liquorice and asparagus and extensive use of public toilets. 125.237.75.108 11:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed

Removed this from the page: "though the finest production (and harvesting) occurs in the Macedonian region". for the love of god provide a citation at the very least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.186.1.195 (talk) 23:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

"Red licorice"

So the "red licorice", which is so famous in the USA, does not actually contain any liquorice? That makes as much sense as calling water beer... oh, but from what I've heard (I don't have experience of it myself), most people in the USA already do. =) JIP | Talk 11:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

shutty your mouthy. it's like calling white chocolate white chocolate when it doesn't contain any chocolate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.218.192 (talk) 20:46, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Frozen yogurt. TCBY, This Can't Be Yogurt. That was completely honest marketing... 213.29.115.6 (talk) 15:21, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Mentioned on TV

This article was mentioned in episode 3 of season 5 of Pen and Teller's Bullshit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.109.27.67 (talk) 10:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Carbon black

Hmm, I previously edited out the sentence The black color is strengthened by the use of carbon black as a food colouring agent. since I suspected vandalism; that change has been reverted. As far as I know (and as far as wikipedia knows), carbon black is partially burned hydrocarbon. Such material might not really be healthy to ingest, at least not unless there were special conditions during production of the carbon black to make sure no harmful compounds were created. This is certainly possible, but I would be less sceptical if there were some way to confirm this, or to confirm that regular carbon black is considered safe for consumption; given that carbon black is suspected of containing carcinogens, the latter could seem unlikely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sakkura (talk • contribs) 02:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no carbon black in liquorice... otherwise it would show up in the ingredient list... and carbon black is used for colouring plastics and making plastics stronger... it's not used in foods.

The black colour comes at least partically from molasses... which is used in the production of most forms of soft liquorice. Molasses should be added to the list of liquorice ingredients... as should wheat... as all the common types of liquorice use them. Wheat is just a binder... the molasses is responsible for some of the tangy taste.

The GI of liquorice should also be queried. When you mix a lot of different things together you tend to lower GI not raise it. A search of the literature could not come up with a GI for liquorice.

A general search found that liquorice is used in some herbal diabetic medications. The general contra-indication (using liquorice if you have diabetes) could not be tracked down to any particular source except for the tendency to raise blood pressure (which has little to do with sugar levels). As most of the liquorice formulations will also be high in trace minerals (molasses is very high in minerals) and we know that trace minerals such as chromium and vanadium (among others) improve sugar metabolism liquorice might not be so bad. Certainly diabetic shops often sell liquorice confectionary with a low GI: http://www.danisco.com/cms/connect/corporate/products%20and%20services/food/confectionery/gummies%20jellies%20liquorice%20chews/gummies_jellies_liquorice_chews_en.htm A GI for a more common type of liquorice (not liquorice allsorts) should put the issue to rest.

Nb. Calculating GI's is a very imprecise science... which might explain why GI's for many foods are so hard to find. This is further complicated by the fact that the GI will vary between formulations of liquorice (the formulations vary widely).

A search on the literature did come up with http://www.confectionerynews.com/news/ng.asp?id=65329-compounds-in-liquorice a reference showing that some compounds in liquorice fight tooth decay.... contrary to the wiki information.

I would have put at least some of this in the Wiki... but the first part of the article... which drew my attention doesn't seem to have an edit option. How is it edited? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slick12 (talk • contribs) 03:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

2 ways, you can edither edit the whole article (with the "edit this page" link at the top of the page), and just change stuff in the top, or you can edit another section, and change the section ID to 0. Some mods to the interface will add an edit link to the first section if that's what you want. Here's the link for your convenience: edit the header section McKay 20:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

If you do a web search for "liquorice" and "vegetable carbon" together, you will hit quite a few candy ingredient lists that show your initial claim was incorrect. TooManyFingers (talk) 23:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Red and Black

In the US, or at least the parts I've been in, red licorice is generally a great deal more popular than black, to the point where, contrary to the article, most people call red licorice "licorice" and black licorice "black licorice".--209.243.31.233 00:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

That's acutally covered at the end of the section. calling "Black liquorice" a retronym. McKay 15:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Though, it characterizes it as a "rarely-noticed" retronym. I think the term "black licorice" is noticed quite a lot, at least here in the States. Unless they meant the retronym nature of the word is noticed rarely. Either way, the descriptor "rarely-noticed" is unsourceable and doesn't add much to the article anyway, so I'm removing it. -kotra 18:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Them Americans and their weak stomachs. Are they so used to overly sweet sugar candies that they can't handle even proper liquorice? My brother tried giving his friends some salty liquorice when he was in the French Riviera. Almost everyone hated it. However, liquorice candies made of real liquorice are very popular throughout France. I wonder what would happen if I were to go to the USA and give people salty liquorice? JIP | Talk 17:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The Americans' stomachs would explode violently and you would be sent to Guantanamo Bay as a terrorist. ...but seriously: "Salty liquorice is somewhat of an acquired taste and is not generally appreciated outside of Scandinavia, Northern Germany and the Netherlands" (from Salty liquorice). It's not merely Americans who have "weak stomachs" (if initially disliking unfamiliar foods means one has a weak stomach). -kotra 18:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know. I am just amazed that what Americans call "licorice" is, in fact, simply strawberry candy. Don't Americans even appreciate the taste of the liquorice plant? JIP | Talk 04:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, we have "black" (regular) licorice too, so we evidently appreciate it also (but to a lesser extent). Red licorice is called that because it's the same shape and texture as our black licorice, just a different color. But if you want to be technical, you're right, it has no actual licorice in it. It's sort of like how soy milk has no actual milk in it. -kotra 19:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Does "red licorice" even taste anything like liquorice, or is it just strawberry candy in a funny shape? If it tastes liquorice-like, one could be forgiven for thinking it has something to do with liquorice, like the soy milk example you cited. Naming something "licorice" just because it's shaped like a candy flavoured by liquorice just sounds far too stupid to me. I would call Americans stupid for calling anything spiral-shaped "licorice" if we Finns hadn't named some things "salmiakkis" just because they were lozenge-shaped. JIP | Talk 20:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I vaguely remember having heard fellow Finns call Strawberry Snören red liquorice sometimes, though it definitely doesn't taste like liquorice at all. --Para 22:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The shape is pretty distinctive in my opinion, in addition to the texture. "Red licorice" shares both of these qualities. Soy milk doesn't really taste like cow milk. It only shares the color and consistency of cow milk, like coconut milk. Here's a better example: cream soda. Originally named "ice cream soda" because it had ice cream in it, cream soda no longer has anything resembling cream in it. While the name is now technically inaccurate, that's how words evolve. Consider the word "awful" which used to mean "awesome", but now it means the exact opposite. -kotra 18:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

In the U.S., licorice comes in dozens of flavors, including grape, root beer and sour apple. The shape and texture is similar to black licorice sticks [1], thus the product's name. America also produces the licorice gum, Black Jack. Besides, its not like Europeans don't have their own weird and nasty sweet food.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Knulclunk (talk • contribs) 21:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Being strict everything not flavoured with liquorice root is not original licorice. However, US companies are fairly liberal in changing original recipes beyond recognition (does anyone thinks US produced Gouda or Cheddar had any similairty to the Dutch or English cheese beside the name). This is also not about nasty sweets, nobody here said they disliked the red stuff, only that it should not be called licorice. Imagine what would happen if a European manufacturer would produce a soggy pancake with some bad ground meat and call it a Big Mac. Although it would probably be an improvement over the original, I can hardly imagine a single American being amused. Arnoutf 23:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

More like calling something not containing any meat, bread, or vegetables a Big Mac, just because it's shaped like three circular discs put on top of each other. JIP | Talk 19:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The thrust of your argument is that red licorice only bears a vague resemblance to black licorice. That's not the case, the only difference in appearance is the color. Here's a more accurate analogy: a normal Big Mac that has been shrunk to half its size. It's technically not "big" anymore, but it might still be called a "small Big Mac". -kotra 18:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

My point is, for some candy to be called "licorice", it has to be flavoured with the liquorice plant, or at least taste like it is. So far, all evidence I have seen points to red licorice being just strawberry candy in a funny shape. JIP | Talk 19:35, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

As I tried to illustrate above, word meanings change. I'm not saying it's good or bad that red licorice is called licorice, I'm just explaining why. The reason, as I've noted already, is not just that it's in a "funny shape", it's that it's in a particularly distinctive shape, with a fairly unique texture, and there really isn't anything else like it in U.S. candy. That's why the word "licorice" was used to help describe the new style of candy in a way that Americans would recognize. That's my theory anyway. -kotra 09:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I would be amused. Bic Macs are hardly sacrosanct here in the US. Quite the opposite in fact, they are symbols of junk food and consumerism. Also, your soggy pancake with meat analogy is misleading because meat with bread is a fairly common combination, whereas a long, thin, chewy, sweet candy, twisted in a particular way, is not. -kotra 18:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Warmed meat with bread is not common in the Netherlands, long thin sweet cady twisted in some way is, but only called licorice if it is black, contains licorice extract and salt. Please do not project US ideas as a world standard. Arnoutf 22:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately for the Dutch, the damage is done. North America already calls it "red licorice". - BalthCat 04:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I am not attempting to project anything. I never said that everyone in the world should call it red licorice. I'm merely trying to explain why, in the United States, red licorice is called red licorice. I apologize if I didn't make that clear from the beginning. To reiterate though: in the United States, long thin sweet distinctly twisted candy is not common, and it certainly wasn't when it was invented however many decades ago. I could also mention that the ingredients of black and red licorice are exactly the same (mostly flour and sugar) except for just the flavorings, but this conversation is unproductive and pointless anyway, so I'll respectfully bow out now. -kotra 09:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I have yet a single American who actually likes black...oops, real, licorice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 23:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Can't speak for the rest of the world, but in Australia red liquorice does contain liquorice extract. It's a lot lower in concentration than the strawberry flavouring, but it is there. (At least in the Ricci and Darrel Lea branded stuff) Phild 99 (talk) 02:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Page Title

I propose moving this page to "Liquorice confectionary". "Candy" is too US centric Albatross2147 (talk) 03:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

If so, then it should be "confectionery", not "confectionary". It would be more in keeping with Wikipedia conventions to move it to "Liquorice (confectionery)" though, since it's usually just called "liquorice". -kotra (talk) 05:12, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm fine with either Liquorice confectionery or Liquorice (confectionery). "Candy" does need to be out of the title though, just as "Liquorice sweet" would not be international. - Yorkshirian (talk) 03:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and made the move and fixed the double redirects. -kotra (talk) 05:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable varieties of liquorice candy

I've changed this section from "Specific varieties of liquorice candy" to "Notable varieties of liquorice candy". This will hopefully prevent people from adding every known brand of licorice on the market to the list (making it meaningless and unmanageable).

Is it reasonable to restrict the list to only those varieties that already have articles? Certainly there are notable varieties that don't yet have articles, and non-notable varieties that do have articles, but other than a paragraph on each variety explaining its notability, the existence of a stable article seems like the only way to determine notability. Any objections to using this as a criteria for inclusion? -kotra (talk) 16:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

In the absence of any objection, I've added a comment to this effect in Liquorice (confectionery)#Notable varieties of liquorice candy. -kotra (talk) 17:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Effect on stool colour

This is mainly addressed to JoelDick, but hopefully other users will offer their opinions and, if available, better sources.

The source given by JoelDick after the claim that "Some people report that black licorice candy causes their stools to become green" is a page on the Mayo Clinic website wherein a doctor answers a question about green stools. In no way does it seem to support the assertion that there have been reports that liquorice causes green stools. Moreover, JoelDick states that "the author mistakenly attributes black stools to licorice" – well, that's the only mention of liquorice/licorice on that page, and if the editor adding the link himself believes that it's mistaken, then why link to it?

None of the other sources makes any mention of liquorice (except a couple of comments by users in one of them) and most aren't reliable sources. Also, it's original research to say that this is "probably due to the blue food colouring" (see specifically WP:SYN: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources" – emphasis mine). However, that's moot if you can't even provide a satisfactory source to show a link between liquorice and green stools.

It may well be true that liquorice consumption has been found to cause green stools for some, but better sources are needed. –CapitalLetterBeginning (talk) 11:27, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

It's not the licorice, it's the food coloring for some reason. As an adult, I ate a half bag of black jelly beans once, and yes, I had green stools. Quite an unexpected shock. Since I was healthy otherwise, I figured out it was the too many black jelly beans at one time, something I had never done before. 5Q5 (talk) 12:18, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Granny Smith?

Why does "Green Apple" appear in the list of "Notable varieties of liquorice"? The link takes you to the Granny Smith page. I'm guessing "Green Apple" is a brand name candy...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.115.153.68 (talk) 23:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

you guess wrong. green apple is a flavor, and "granny smith" is a type of apple that such a flavor comes from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.218.192 (talk) 20:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Move to Liquorice (confection)?

Oughtn't this be titled Liquorice (confection)? Confectionery is defined in every dictionary I can see (both American and British) as sweets or candies collectively, or a place where such candies are sold; an individual type of candy is simply a confection. The title should be changed, as should the article, e.g. "Liquorice is a confectionery flavoured" to "Liquorice is a confection flavoured", etc. --76.28.236.209 (talk) 17:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessary. "Confectionery" is used as a sort of category, not as an adjective. There's no need to get specific over the grammar of article titles, since they change depending on how the word is used. - M0rphzone (talk) 01:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Legal status

I was told that licorice containing the real plant extract was outlawed in America a long time ago. Supposedly, black licorice sold there was completely artificially flavored and colored to taste and look like the real thing. The rationale was brain damage in very young children. Is that true and are there any sources to back it up? 213.29.115.6 (talk) 15:29, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

If so, there are a lot of candymakers breaking the law, flagrantly selling poison here in the US. Plenty of black licorice labels list licorice extract as an ingredient. Anise is more common to flavor black licorice, but only because it's cheaper. But the good stuff is always proud to put "licorice extract" or something similar in their ingredients. -kotra (talk) 23:54, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

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Unexplained and unhelpful edits

One editor is repeatedly reverting without explanation legimate edits: [2] and [3]. They have also been posting faking warnings about the same [4]. This editor should be aware that per cent is two words, see [5]. They should also familiarise themselves with Wikipedia’s guidelines regarding ‘assuming good faith’ and hence posting threats without engaging in discourse is inappropriate. They should also familiarise themselves with the guidelines about leaving edit summaries. Thankfully another, and more contstructive, editor subsequently interevened with a related edit that is valid, see [6]. Hopefully the unconstructive editor will now leave the article alone, and also consider more constructive actions in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.106.14.81 (talk) 13:57, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Zefr sidestepped the discussion by substituting for %. But I do agree with you. The use of flavour and colour confirm this article is written in British English where the two-word version per cent is favoured. So indeed, for this article per cent should be the preferred style. Arnoutf (talk) 14:58, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Pure extract of liquorice as confection

Pure extract of liquorice (or relatively close to pure but with other flavours added) is sold as a confection in at least Italy and England (and probably elsewhere, I haven't bothered to check), and for example Vigroids are already listed in the "Varieties" section of this article, but otherwise the possibility doesn't really seem to be mentioned. TooManyFingers (talk) 15:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)