Talk:Kamal Salibi

Name

His name literally means "Crusader" in Arabic, but some extreme Islamists are fond of quoting from him nevertheless... AnonMoos 08:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

His name does not mean "crusader" and has nothing to do with crusaders. It was given to his family centuries before crusades even happened. A true definition of the name and origins of it can be found here Saleeby Saliba Association of Families . Any islamists quoting him are probably aware of his families history and how they fought against the crusaders. 125.237.247.61 10:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

His name means, Cross, not Crusader (even though Crusader is a cognate of Cross). — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 10:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

It's the adjective form of the word for "cross", which can indeed mean Crusader, according to my dictionary. Look at the interwiki at the bottom of article Crusade -- it's ar:حملات صليبية... AnonMoos (talk) 16:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

In any case, Salib, in Lebanese Arabic (which I speak), means Cross. If fundamentalist Muslims want to interpret this as him being a crusader, that's their point of view. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 19:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Could Mr. AnonMoos helpfully give a source for "some extreme Islamists are fond of quoting from him"? I've seen no evidence for it. I'm also intrigued by the implication of the "but" and "nevertheless". Is Mr. AnonMoos implying that it is logical or sensible to make any inferences about a person's character or loyalties from a mere surname? If the alleged "extreme Islamists" take no notice of it, is that not a tribute to their good sense?SamuelTheGhost (talk) 21:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Good points, Samuel. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 21:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I've seen it in Usenet postings, such as http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.islam.arabic/msg/e464c709f22b8c45 by the well-known Usenet bigot "Abu-Alwafa" (or as I like to call him, ابو الوفاة), who has posted over 100,000 spam messages to various Muslim-related, Jewish-related, and middle-eastern Usenet groups (using many endearing aliases, such as "Ilan Ramon: Kike Lost in Space"). Forgive me if it's merely trivia, but it tickles my fancy when I see a Muslim bigot posting anti-Jewish and anti-Christian messages to Usenet, relying on the work of someone whose name translates as "Crusader"... AnonMoos (talk) 16:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

lol, you're forgiven. Either way though, his name merely means "Cross". It's a cognate in many Semitic languages. For instance, in Syriac, we say "Boslibo" (means, "swear on the Cross"). Salibi is simply Cross. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 16:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Spelling

First line of second paragraph misspells "extensively". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.118.3 (talk • contribs)

Thanks. Fixed. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 10:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Salibi's Less Controversial Work

I think it is a little unfair that that Kamal Salibi's wikipedia page focuses mainly on his controversial theory "The Bible came from Jerusalem" theory. Kamal Salibi is a highly recognised historian: "The Modern History of Lebanon" is a reference book. The same can be said of "House of Many Mansions - The History of Lebanon Reconsidered". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.196.63.214 (talk) 20:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Nobody's taken any decision to be "a little unfair". The way wikipedia works is that people add material they feel competent to write about. So if you can write a pragraph about Salibi's work as a historian of Lebanon, please do so. But rather than just saying he's "highly recognised" etc, although I'm sure you're right about that, you'll need to find some reference which demonstrates that fact. (If you feel inhibited from interfering with the article yourself, put the text here and I'll edit and insert it.)SamuelTheGhost (talk) 20:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Message from N. Mphanya

I think it should be pointed out that Sabibi's work is highly unpopular in some Arab circles as it might encourage Israel to relocate in or expand into Asir, Jizan and Hijaz provinces(sic). His "Arabian Judah" work is banned in Syria and Saudi Arabia. Saudi bulldozers have destroyed sites at An Nimas ("Old Jerusalem"). Dr Bernard Leeman, whose Ethiopian research appears to back the "Arabian Judah" hypothesis, has unsuccessfuly urged Salibi for twenty years to expand his research into that field arguing that without archaeological investigation in Saudi Arabia the Salibi hypothesis is too dependent on place names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntsukunyane Mphanya (talk • contribs) 06:01, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits

Here is what I wrote at the talk page of the editor who has been adding the Lias stuff. "Ok, I've found Salibi's blog. Now I understand what's going on, and AnonMoos is correct. A short paragraph sourced from his blog, stating something like 'Salib's blog quotes a postscript to the forthcoming second edition of his book by Anthony Lias. In this Lias says...... " In your own words. Or I'll do it if you like. " The blog is here. Dougweller (talk) 08:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Message from N.Mphanya

Interestingly all references to Dr Bernard Leeman's book "Queen of Sheba and Biblical Scholarship" were sytematically removed from Wikipedia earlier this year!! Who was responsible for removing it from this entry? Leeman has been Salibi's close colleague since 1985. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ntsukunyane Mphanya (talk • contribs) 20:49, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Death

Salib Died today ( 1st of september 2011) i have no information about his death. can anyone include some more info ?? --Jadraad (talk) 11:04, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

If you have no information, how do you know? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

--I was with my art history teacher when he got a phone call telling him of salibi's death ..( they were good friends.) --Jadraad (talk) 12:28, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

It's still important to find a published source for the information. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 13:24, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

"the fanatical Christianity characteristic of many of his Maronite colleagues"

The article says he was "free of the fanatical Christianity characteristic of many of his Maronite colleagues", which sounds a bit too non NPOV for a wiki article. But it is referenced, okay, but the actual referenced article says "he was free of the fanaticism about Lebanon's Christian nature that characterizes many of his Maronite colleagues," which is a different thing.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 21:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree that it's different. I've adjusted the wording. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 21:26, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

good edit. Thanks.--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:18, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I added more to this section, because without it, it looks very derogatory towards Kamal Salibi.

The theory has not been widely accepted anywhere, and embarrassed many of his colleagues.What prompted a top historian to risk his reputation on a futile exercise like that? It was not an attempt to refute the Jewish ancestral claim to the Land of Israel, as Salibi was not a sworn enemy of Israel or Zionism. Perhaps it was an intellectual exercise, an attempt by someone whose world had been destroyed to find refuge in an intellectual game.

the part in bold is the added part, and its from the same source. This needs to be added otherwise the "embarrassed many of his collegeagues" statment makes him look like a crock, which he deffinately was not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.2.22.179 (talk) 15:59, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

how about you stop deleting it when its from the same source??

not sure why you are blocking every single thing I do???? you don't even know the man, I DO.

Very well, it is from the source, but it violates WP:COPYVIO. If you want to keep the quote, you must make it obvious that it's a quote, and attribute it to the author. Yazan (talk) 16:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Please, stop reverting and try to calm down for a second. The talk page is where we try to reach consensus on what goes in the article. Yazan (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

ugh, if I knew how to do that, I would........this wiki stuff is not my forte! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Can you please explain how I go about making this necessary change?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

No worries, wala yhemmek. This is the place for discussion, but comments like this poisons the well, and are completely unacceptable. Now, we can start cleanly, if you can post a detailed argument for what you want deleted/added, and go from there. I would also urge you to acknowledge and apologize to the said editor for that comment, so that you wouldn't get blocked for it. Imagine if someone in their reply to you said that "Kamal is a dirty Lebanese", these comments don't belong in a discussion. Cheers. Yazan (talk) 16:27, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

lol I only said that because without adding the rest of the quote, it makes rabinowitz look very rasciest, but when I actually found the entire article, I realized they were close freinds.....so leaving it the way it is not only makes kamal salibi look bad, but it makes rabinowitz also look bad, so added the rest of the quote is very important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

also, I deleted that right after I said it. I wasn't aware you would still be able to see it, my bad! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

How about we add something in the line of:

"Rabinowitz discounts anti-semitism as the impetus for the book because Salibi "was not a sworn enemy of Israel or Zionism." He speculates however that it might've been "an intellectual exercise, an attempt by someone whose world had been destroyed to find refuge in an intellectual game."

How does that sound? We also need to wait for input from other editors involved. Yazan (talk) 16:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

id really like if you added the first part about his being a top historian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 16:49, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

"Rabinowitz discounts anti-semitism as the impetus for the book because Salibi "was not a sworn enemy of Israel or Zionism." He speculates however that it might've been "an intellectual exercise" for Salibi, whom he considers a "top historian".

I think this should be acceptable, no? We can't simply copy and paste the whole thing here. The passage is cited, and those who are interested in more, can simply use the link to see the full article. Yazan (talk) 16:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

OK THAT SOUNDS GOOD, THANKYOU! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBOKSMATI89 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, added to the article. Now, I hope you'll take a moment to read a bit on our policies here at Wikipedia, so that this kind of situation doesn't arise again. Most important of which are, Neutral point of view and Verifiability. And don't hesitate to leave me a message if you need help somewhere else. Cheers! Yazan (talk) 17:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

reversion of added material

I'm reverting this edit as being off-topic. The article is about Kamal Salibi. It rightly describes a theory he advanced, but this is not the place for a general discussion of the possible origins of Israel in Arabia. The added material contains no citations of Salibi himself, and is based mainly on the work of scholars who long pre-date him, but who he does not rely on in his argument, so their relevance is dubious at best. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Itamar Rabinowitz = Itamar Rabinovich?

Is Itamar Rabinowitz, quoted as the author of a eulogy for Salibi, the same person as Itamar Rabinovich? It seems probable, but I'd like to be sure, and if so it's strange that Ha'aretz can't transliterate his name consistently. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 22:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Looking a bit further, this seems to make it certain that the answer is yes. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 22:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Protestant?

According to a Haaretz article "Salibi was born in 1929 to a Greek Orthodox family which later joined the Anglican Church.". That's not the same as saying he was born into a Protestant family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.191.114.105 (talk) 11:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

His theory is probably wrong but I"d like to know more about it.

Like see a detailed Map of exactly where he placed Solomon's Temple or Beth-El.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 05:56, 16 January 2017 (UTC)