Talk:Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer

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A news item involving Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 April 2023.

Wikipedia

Launch vehicle

ESA has asked Russia to contribute a Proton rocket for ESA’s planned Juice mission to the Jupiter region in 2022. This would become a joint ESA-Roscosmos mission. (31 May, 2012). Source: [1]

Sadly the SpaceNews URL doesn't work now. Did Roscosmos respond ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems Ariane 5 was chosen as launch vehicle by Dec 2011, see p5 of JUICE yellow book - Rod57 (talk) 11:44, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Targeted moons

The moon Io is listed as one of the target moons, however, the mission's home page does not mention any science to be performed on Io. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 17:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The mission science documents state that JUICE could conduct small-scale remote observations of Io for specific objectives like plume evolution, but then it will study similar targets of opportunity throughout the mission. I think that's why someone put it there. However I'd say this isn't significant enough to be considered amongst the primary targets which are clearly the icy moons and are the only ones JUICE will perform flybys around. ChiZeroOne (talk) 13:06, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

JUICE (JUpiter ICy moons Explorer)

The name used by ESA is JUICE (JUpiter ICy moons Explorer), with plural "moons". Would someone like to correct the article title? Dondervogel 2 (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. - BatteryIncluded (talk) 21:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sonic the Hedgehog as mascot for the RPWI instrument and its missions?

In October 2019, I heard one of my video game characters was chosen as the mascot for Japan's Radio & Plasma Wave Investigation, with permission of Sega and a special logo to go with the equipment. This is the primary source cited for this announcement, such as this Kotaku article; it does look verifiable as part of the Tohoku University (a prestigious one) website. Is this worth mentioning or 'nay? ❤︎PrincessPandaWiki (talk | contribs) 22:48, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quick edit: The article linked in the heading does mention this, so it's likely worth mentioning. I dunno where to put it in the article, though. ❤︎PrincessPandaWiki (talk | contribs) 22:50, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All the dates in the article are wrong. Launch is planned for 2022 not 2023

From a source linked to in this very article: "The mission will be launched from Kourou with an Ariane 5. The baseline launch window is between 26 August – 15 September 2022, with a backup launch slot in August 2023"

I've seen other sources with a June launch date in 2022 as well. Not sure which is correct.

https://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EPSC2021/EPSC2021-358.html

216.246.155.160 (talk) 21:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Now the article (and NASA & ESA websites) says April 2023. For years (2011...2015-2017-2020?) it was due to launch in 2022. Would be nice if article could say when and why it was delayed until 2023 (Covid-19 ??). - Rod57 (talk) 18:27, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What delta-V from the 4 gravity assists

Could we say : What delta-V will it gain from each of the 4 gravity assists ? Would other launchers have been able to reduce the number of GA's and travel time ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:06, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

JUICE yellow book Dec 2011 says

"Launch is foreseen on an Ariane 5 ECA with direct escape with an Earth-Venus-Earth-Earth gravity assist sequence. With the baseline launch date in June 2022 (backup in August 2023), a JOI, preceded by a Ganymede gravity assist manoeuvre, would be performed in January 2030, after 7.6 years (for the backup launch in August 2031 after 8 years). The mass injected into the Earth escape trajectory would be 4800 kg (without launch adapter), with a hyperbolic escape velocity of 3.15 km/s, which increases to 9.5 km/s after the last Earth swing-by."

Is that a 6.35 km/s delta-V ? Interesting that now it is due to launch in April 2023, possibly with different planetary flyby sequence ? - Rod57 (talk) 11:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What does the JUICE spacecraft and launch cost

Article should answer : What does the JUICE spacecraft and launch cost ? Initial budget ? Final cost ? - Rod57 (talk) 20:26, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NASA budget (for instruments?) $114 M [2]

ESA, In 2012 BBC [3] say "The mission will cost Esa on the order of 830m euros (£695m; $1.1bn) over its entire life cycle. This includes the cost of manufacturing the spacecraft bus, or chassis, launching the satellite and operating it until 2033." - Rod57 (talk) 20:32, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

mmm.. the double, 1600 millions of euro[4] [5]. Kirk39 (talk) 14:09, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I used the SN ref (in English). Rod57 (talk) 18:40, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why Io?

Is there a reason why this odd phrase is being kept in the article? [6]

"The mission is not focused on the volcanically active Io, a non-icy moon."

Fuzheado | Talk 19:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was appropriately removed by Brandmeister. [7] Fuzheado | Talk 16:21, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why the investigator and funding agency?

I feel like the fields that attribute each instrument to one or more investigators and to the corresponding funding agency come out directly from the PR kit. Can we remove it? Resincognita (talk) 22:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It really does feel like the list is a bit too comprehensive for an encyclopedia; I would think that a short compiled summary on the nature of the instruments (ie. what kind of instruments does JUICE have? what do they do?) written in prose, as opposed to a list, would be more appropriate. Lunare Scuderia (talk) 08:40, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

if you want to remove PI and agency I think it'll be fine, but do not remove the instruments info/descriptions, they are valuable! Each instrument is different, and a list (current version) makes sense, not just a sentence like "JUICE have instruments a, b, and c". Artem.G (talk) 08:55, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Juice is no longer an acronym

Juice was formerly known as JUICE, but ESA has dropped the acronym. see: https://www.planetary.org/space-missions/juice] 97.135.92.219 (talk) 16:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would support a change from JUICE to Juice as per 97.135.92.219 based on their input and the source that they provided which links back directly to a website from ESA themselves: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice which refers to it as "Juice" as well. I have personal convictions against "Juice" because it feels immature to me (as opposed to "JUICE") but that doesn't matter on Wikipedia ^^ Lunare Scuderia (talk) 17:06, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually now that I think about it, this would entail a move request, no? The article would be changed from "Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer" to "Juice (spacecraft)" or something like that Lunare Scuderia (talk) 17:08, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to their FAQ: "Juice was originally JUICE, a complicated acronym for JUpiter ICy moons Explorer. ESA has since simplified the name to Juice, the Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer." So the name "Jupiter Icy Moons Explorer" is accurate. - Fuzheado | Talk 16:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GIF image Around the Sun orbits appear wrongly centered

Orbits in the image should be nearly circular, only slightly elliptical. More importantly, the Sun needs to be at a focal point of all the planetary orbits, not at the center. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_mechanics Gdayton (talk) 17:07, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Launch attempt

Hey Artem.G, I really liked the information about the previous launch attempt:

"JUICE was to be launched on 13 April 2023 on an Ariane 5 launch vehicle from the Guiana Space Centre but due to poor weather the launch was postponed."

(Citing https://twitter.com/Arianespace/status/1646485391506042883 and https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/ESA_s_Juice_lifts_off_on_quest_to_discover_secrets_of_Jupiter_s_icy_moons)

I think it belongs into the Wiki but don't know where exactly to put it. The Artemis 1 put it into the "Background" section of the article, but we only have "History" and it's so short that I'm not comfortable putting it there... any ideas? Lunare Scuderia (talk) 17:36, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you think it's valuable you can put it into History. Though currently short, it can and should be developed. I personally don't see any value in the info that this launch was postponed for one day because of the weather because that's a very common event, but you can be right here. Artem.G (talk) 17:41, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, I looked through some other articles for launched spacecrafts/spaceprobes but I'm not sure if that was very helpful. I don't wanna be annoying over small things like this and I don't know how this is usually handled - if 1-day weather delays are often ignored then we might do so as well. I thought it's valuable information. For now I just added it back in, but if the article is better off without it then don't let this stop you/anyone from removing it. Thank you :) Lunare Scuderia (talk) 18:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I took the liberty of moving it to the Timeline section, refining it some and mentioning that this is the final ESA science launch atop an Ariane 5 rocket. I think the prior attempt is a nice detail to note. Having it in the Background section struck me as awkward and out of the flow of the surrounding text, and since Timeline covers the launch it seemed to fit neatly there. – The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 01:08, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gravity assist does not involve Mars

Text says: Interplanetary transfer (Earth, Venus, Earth, Mars, Earth) However, Mars is not part of the transfer animated GIF. The GIF shows an orbit between Earth and Jupiter but that's the 223 Rosa which may be studied as a fly-by. This observation is backed up by the reference to https://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/mar2012/presentations/Friday/5_JUICE_Summary.pdf which says the transfer is Earth-Venus-Earth_Earth. I'm not sure the significance of the underscore in that description.

Since I'm not an astronavigator, I'll leave this to someone more competent to amend. But I'm pretty sure Mars is not part of the interplanetary route out to Jupiter.

Rob Burbidge (talk) 08:53, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/ESA_s_Juice_lifts_off_on_quest_to_discover_secrets_of_Jupiter_s_icy_moons details the route. Indeed, Mars is not part of the route. Uwappa (talk) 09:12, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to have that confirmed. Does anyone know the significance of the underscore character in Earth-Venus-Earth_Earth. Does it mean 2 consecutive assists from Earth, and if so why does it not appear as Earth-Venus-Earth-Earth? Ignore last question if it's not appropriate to discuss here. Rob Burbidge (talk) 14:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, 2 consecutive assists from Earth, see https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2022/12/Juice_s_journey_to_Jupiter

The author of the PDF will know the significance of the underscore, William Mckinnon according to the PDF's metadata, probably professor William Mckinnon with contact details at: https://source.wustl.edu/experts/william-mckinnon/ Uwappa (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Updated External Link URL

The current external link, https://sci.esa.int/web/juice

leads to a page that is flagged with a warning: "Currently, sci.esa.int is under review and not being updated."

Following a link at the top level of the ESA public web site, the new site for Juice is

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice

There is a corresponding page for mission science and data products at

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/juice

but that's just a placeholder as of 7 May 2023 because the mission, while launched, is not fully deployed or generating data intended for scientific research.

So anyway it appears that the External Link URL should be updated to

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice BoydWaters (talk) 02:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ESA Launch kit pdf

[8] 29 slides in a PDF. - Rod57 (talk) 17:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Data storage and rates

The article says that it will be able to download 2Gb/day, but that seems really low. That's just 23.148 Kb/second, under a quarter of what the Voyagers were capable of from the same distance. Both ESA and NASA websites agree, but I can't help but wonder if they've got confused and used Gb (gigabits) instead of GB (gigabytes). I've asked ESA for clarification but don't realistically expect to hear back :-( - DrHydeous (talk) 11:20, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]