Talk:Homeworld 2

Real World References/Trivia

As for Homeworld 1, I spotted a number of references to existing places, ideas and such, like the level Gehenna. Maybe worth adding and enhancing? Lloeki (talk) 07:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Multiplayer Compatibility

Does anyone know if PC and Mac users can play with each other (ala starcraft)? Is Mac dependent on Gameranger? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.244.95 (talk) 06:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

What about over LAN? Is it compatible between operating systems? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.36.130 (talk) 22:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

NPOV dispute

Why has this been NPOV'd? 68.88.71.42, who flagged it, said Somebody seems to have stripped this article of its criticism, of which, believe me, there is plenty for HW2. Well, I may believe you, but that's not a cited source; I looked back at the criticism that was stripped out and it was clearly the editor's opinion, not cited criticism from prominent gaming critics or anything.

I think it would be fine to see some criticism that is cited if it exists, but the lack thereof certainly doesn't make the article biased. The article as-is is just a description of the game as far as I can tell, so I'm removing the tag. - Dharmabum420 03:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Progenitor Entry

I just read the entry on the Progenitors (spelled incorrectly by the way), and I don't remember seeing anything about their relation to the Bentusi anywhere in the literature of Homeworld 2 (in-game or on a website). I don't think the Progenitors were around anywhere near the time that the wars broke out which resulted in the Hiigaran's exile. I've read a lot of material (official) on this and I am suspicious that some of what is here may be fancruft. I'd like to see the sources cited soon, otherwise I'm going to remove the questionable sections. (On a second view of the whole Nations section, I came to the conclusion that it really isn't necessary and should probably be removed altogether.) --InvaderJim42 23:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Other concerns

For the sake of Hiigara, somebody check the spelling here and slap some spoiler tags on!

Spoiler tags haha wow. Welcome to Wikipedia? Easymac08 (talk) 22:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Dear lord! The races!

I browse Wikipedia a lot for all sorts of reasons, so I decided to throw my hat into the ring and fix stuff. But Christ, the races are.... a bit borked. I fixed up the Hiigaran entry (anyone feel free to edit it, I was just trying to fix the bad spelling and grammar). Go ahead and (please) fix the Bentusi, Vaygr and Progenitor entries. If you don't, I will (try to, at least). :p

SHould we add missions?

Should we add in missions as well or will that somehow spoil the article/or should we make seperate article? (Yamam 09:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC))

Started adding structure

Thought I'd help out a bit, add references, sort the links, use my experience on working on Final Fantasy IV to help make this a better article...Judgesurreal777 14:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

List of Ships

I'm starting a detailed list of both Vaygr and Hiigaran ships at User:Master of Puppets/Ships in Homeworld 2. If anyone has info or wants to help, feel free to come on down. _-M ^o P-_ 22:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Third Person

I went through and removed all of the "you" and "your" nonsense, and removed the 1st/2nd person tag. --PresN 22:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Name

Everywhere in the actual media (the installer, the folder names, the game itself) it's named "Homeworld2" but on the internet it seems to just be "The game homeworld, part two - Homeworld 2" ... what's the real name? --Froth 22:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to vote for Homeworld 2 rather than Homeworld2. Go to www.homeworld2.com and see all the places where, in actual text, they put the space in. --Twile 14:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

This article should include something about the Complex Mod...

This article should include something about the Complex Mod along with the other mods listed.

http://www.homeworld2complex.com/

POV Edits

I've added some more balanced review data, a load of citation tags where statements need backup or to be removed. And I've also gone through the mod section and toned down a lot of the POV statements. Basically the MOD section was reading too much like an advertisment for how good these mods are going to be when finished.

I got the impressions some of the links in the mod section could be the citation's needed like for example the forum thread regarding the EVE online mod. But they're currently included as links not citations.

Also the community really needs to decide which mods are actually notable. Since I suspect mod makers are adding themselves in for promotional purposes.

87.81.110.119 13:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• As a player (not a mod/map maker) I found it useful to have some links to mod sites and mod descriptions --24.58.181.89 23:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

As per WP:NOT and WP:N, this is an encyclopedia article, not an indiscriminate collection of links. There is a difference between "interesting" (or "useful") and "importance" here. Regards, Tuxide 00:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

True, though HW2 never had a massive following as other games released around the same time did. The mods are noteworthy in that they a good part of what keeps the game relevant today. Without them, the game itself would barely be considered sufficiently noteworthy to justify having an article about it in 2007. Not trying to start something over HW2 mods, just saying that they are a significant part of why the game is still noteworthy, and that a person who came to this page looking for more information about the game would probably want to see at least a link to a site that catalogs mods--24.58.181.89 00:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I have answered your question on Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/HW2: Pirates Mod‎; in a nutshell it's about WP:N and WP:V. Regards, Tuxide 02:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Article Splitting

This article is too long and desperately needs to be split up. All the information on ships, races and mods is too much for the main article. it's way over wikipedia recommended length and realisticly the main article shouldn't level of depth, it really needs to be split. 87.81.110.119 13:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that opinion. Wikipedia is no game review. Have this article rearranged or I will shorten it personally. KajiTetsushi 06:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I concur with forking the ships section into a new list article, such as List of ships in Homeworld 2, whatever. The quotes section can be removed entirely; Wikipedia is no place for adding flavor text to encyclopedia articles. Another idea is to see how the featured article Final Fantasy VII throws quotations into the References section. Regards, Tuxide 06:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I will try to find time for that. I also suggest a curtail or a separated article for the background story of Homeworld 2 - it is too long for anyone to read. - KajiTetsushi 06:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Wrong category

I don't think this game belongs in the Space Trading and Simulation category. There is no trading in this game and combat is too abstracted. SharkD 02:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Too much cruft

I think this article, as well as its child articles, contain too much cruft. The game is not notable enough to deserve this much attention. All this information is better suited for a wiki built and hosted by the fan community--not Wikipedia! SharkD 02:15, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the ship section contains much WP:OR and messes up the flow of an article about a video game. It should be treated like the mod section that used to be in here. This is the sequel to the 1999 Game of the Year. It's one of those games that received positive reviews and ended up dooming the franchise, another being Tribes: Vengeance. Thus, the game is indeed notable, if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly. Tuxide 04:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No word about Homeworld Complex?

Homeworld Complex is such a good and mature expansion. Why it is not mentioned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.92.169 (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You will find your answer on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HW2: Pirates Mod. Tuxide (talk) 20:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

for the complex mod the situation is a little bit different as this specific one was critical acclaimed. honored by moddb as one of 12 mods overall, the best of the best i think to mention this mod as example (for the many) in this article is acceptable, as at the moment there is nothing about modding overall mentioned. Shaddim (talk) 17:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. I believe such a mention is undue, if not free advertisement. I personally followed its development and see nothing Wikipedia-worthy in it; it is a mod like many others. (Although interestingly for me, a Relic Forum user called "Fleet Command" loved it.) Regards, Fleet Command (talk) 14:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

it's not about my opinion (or your opinion) if this mod is noteworthy or not, it's about the opinion of Mod DB an major/relevant website, which can be called authoritative regarding to this topic, which ranked this mod as on of 12 from 10.000ths of mods (best of best). also, in general the modding phenomena with HW2 was significant so why not mention it with an noteworthy example? no harm to no-one. in general I agree, that WP is NOT about advertisment of specific mods (only when really exceptional noteworthy or illustrating somethign bigger), but about society changing movements, and the modding scene is noteworthy subculture. cheers Shaddim (talk) 17:03, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

You use a lot of peacock words in your argument: "Major website", "best of best", etc. Most people do not even know what mod is, let alone what Homeworld Complex is. Homeworld Complex is known only by the hardcore fan -- a very small minority group. Therefore such a mention is undue, if not free advertisement. In addition, Mod DB itself does not merit having an article in Wikipedia (due to lack of WP:N) and must be nominated for deletion. These are not my opinion; they are pure Wikipedia policy. Feel free to prove me wrong with your independent sources. Fleet Command (talk) 18:21, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

what? I think you are completely derailing... you are not in the position of deciding that mod DB(yes, part of WP, for 2 years!) is not an notable webpage, and that modding overall is not an note-worthy part of our contemporary culture. you are just hiding behind many important sounding bureaucratic WP policy terms. and, policies should be applied with some common sense, and not to protect some personal interpretations like this has something to do with "advertisment". Shaddim (talk) 19:30, 8 December 2011 (UTC) PS: as you like bureaucratic enforcement of policies, you mentioned your personal envolvment with the complex mod, maybe you should better drop out this discussion according to WP:COI

If you have nothing better than calling me names or are incapable of understanding the difference between someone who follows something and someone who is involved in its development, then our discussion is over. Fleet Command (talk) 22:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

you started this with your indifferent flaming against moddb and the cultural phenomena "modding scene" overall.Shaddim (talk) 09:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

some examples of recognition of the modding phenomena in the scientific community: Postigo, H. (2008) Video Game Appropriation through Modifications: Attitudes Concerning Intellectual Property among Modders and Fans. Convergence, 14(1), 59-74. ; Postigo, H. (2007) Of Mods and Modders: Chasing Down the Value of Fan-Based Digital Game Modifications. Games and Culture, 2(4), 300-313. ; Nieborg, D. B., & van der Graaf, S. (2008) The mod industries? The industrial logic of non-market game production. European Journal of Cultural Studies, 11(2), 177- 195. ; IFIP Advances in Information and Communication Technology, 2011, Volume 365/2011, 62-74, DOI: 10.1007/978-3-642-24418-6_5, Walt Scacchi - Modding as an Open Source Approach to Extending Computer Game Systems

This source has absolutely no bearing on our discussion: Our issue is not the importance of modding in the community but rather the due weight of Homeworld Complex. If you are willing to pretend not to understand this huge distinction, then I believe any further discussion would be futile. I already showed you the way: Independent sourcing in reliable sources. Good luck. Fleet Command (talk) 22:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

exactly, like your absolutistic statement that moddb is not relevant. I don't need luck because I brought already an reference of an independent, authorative source, mod DB. good luck to you. 09:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

so, you "checked" the relevance of modDB. As the result was positive, can you agree now in interpreting modDB as an authorative, moderated source for this specific topic? cheers Shaddim (talk) 18:05, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

The merit of the one article for inclusion in Wikipedia has no bearing whatsoever on its eligibility as a reliable source. (Many criminals have their own articles in Wikipedia but are not reliable sources either.) "Authoritative" is a condemning word that you use. Wikipedia is founded on the principle of Wikipedia:Neutral point of view not authoritative intervention. To put it straight: You are advised to stop hovering around the subject of ModDB and instead search for reliable independent sources about Homeworld Complex that show its due merit of inclusion in Wikipedia. Fleet Command (talk) 07:56, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

thats not an clear answer (but an fast one ;) ). First, WP-pages of criminals are not sources, but criminals might be (primary-)sources in their specific "domain". Back on relevance, relevance of the phenomena "modding" is given. The relevance of the specific instance of modding, the webpage modDB, was checked. So, what is the problem in including an example of this relevant phenomena in context of homeworld into this article? especially, if we have aleady a sourced, award honored example available? Wikipedia:Neutral point of view against modDB is the wrong argument. This specialist web-page has seen many, many mods... and is doubtfully in favour of some "homeworld" mod. Shaddim (talk) 17:48, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Play with words as much as you like; you need independent sourcing. Otherwise, there is no advertising your Homeworld 2 mod in Wikipedia with any excuse whatsoever. This is not negotiable. Fleet Command (talk) 07:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

your statement that the inclusion of the mod complex is prohibited because it is clearly "promotion" is your very personal, unproven, and unencyclopedic (mis-)interpretation. this is not advertisment or promotion, this is an example of an relevant encyclopedic subaspect. Shaddim (talk) 08:00, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

The burden of the proof is on you, not me. And chaining some big words like "unencyclopedic" will not help you evade the necessity of independent sourcing. That is all I have to say. 08:46, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

already done that on the very beginning, reverence of an independent, specific, moderated and accepted source was given. the encyclopedic value of this source was additional "checked" by you, and positive. so, done already. please put your big and unspecific anti-inclusion hammer, "advertisment" back to toolbox Shaddim (talk) 09:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

It might be worth noting that ModDB is listed specifically as a source to avoid on the WP:VG/S page, so it's out of the question. The issue is still with independant sourcing as was mentioned above. Eik Corell (talk) 09:40, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up, Eik Corell. I have to confess that I was not aware of this specific consensus. cheers Shaddim (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

---

2008 tease regarding a sequel

Since the sequel didn't happen, the 2008 speculation about it is moot and unencyclopedic. I suggest that it be removed. patsw (talk) 22:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

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