Talk:Dolly zoom

Untitled

Also known as a "retro zoom." In fact, retro zoom is the only term I recall having ever heard used and I have been in the film/video post-production industry for 30+ years.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.78.34.10 (talk) 20:11, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the same thing as "zoom in, dolly out"? (or is that "zoom out, dolly in"?) As seen repeatedly in (ugh) Home Alone, etc.? -- DrBob

One of those two, yes. To tell whether it's being tracked back & zoomed in or tracked forward & zoomed out, keep an eye on the background. If you end up with a wider view of the background & it looks farther away, it's been zoomed out (you've gone from telephoto to wide angle). I think that's how it's mostly done but I haven't watched any of the films specifically to find out which it is. Koyaanis Qatsi 21:02 Jan 31, 2003 (UTC)

Does anyone have a set of (say) three still JPGs which demonstrate this effect? -- SGBailey

perspective distortion Koyaanis Qatsi

I've never heard of this as "Hitchcock zoom". To me it's always been zido, or the "Jaws shot". Outside of Vertigo, I would have thought Jaws was the most famous use of this technique. --Attila the Pooh 15:57, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but it was first used in Vertigo, which is itself quite famous. Adopted later by many directors, both good and bad, but that's a different matter. :-) Koyaanis Qatsi

Isn't Dolly Zoom more appropriate?

The term used for this in the film industry is dolly-zoom. I'm a cinematographer by trade and I've never heard of a Hitchcock Zoom. I believe that Hitchcock was the first to do it but I don't think that his name stayed attached to it in common language. I think this page should be moved to dolly zoom. --Plowboylifestyle 03:46, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Okay it been almost a week, I'm doing it... --Plowboylifestyle 09:30, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've known this as the "Vertigo Shot," something also used by the special effects team of The Matrix: Reloaded. Dolly zoom seems more appropriate, though, as long as "Vertigo shot" redirects here, which it did. 67.185.99.246 22:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Irmin Roberts, a Paramount second-unit cameraman

Can anyone verify who invented the shot? And if the dolly zoom was in fact used in Hitchcock's Spellbound?

> Quoting a blog is probably insufficient to edit the article, and since the blogger himself didn't edit it, I assume he felt his evidence insufficient. However, FWIW, from http://www.charlespetzold.com/blog/2007/03/070716.html "(Wikipedia has a Dolly Zoom article that indicates the technique "appeared earlier at the climax to [Hitchcock's] film Spellbound," which dates from 1945. This is just plain wrong: The relevant scene in Spellbound is at 1:38:22 on the DVD and only looks like a dolly zoom if you don't know the boy is moving relative to the background. The camera is following the moving boy, so of course the background recedes, and there's nothing special about it. I suspect this particular shot was done with rear-screen projection.)" - so, not quite as good evidence as a Google video clip, but at least there's a time stamp to go off, for anyone who's got the video. DewiMorgan 15:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've deleted an incorrect portion of information: Romanian cinematographer Sergiu Huzum as being credited as "inventing" the method. Whomever wrote this did not reference correctly; the reference they used, does not even mention this Romanian cinematographer. In fact, at point 5, confirms the Vertigo affect was created by Irmin Roberts (see Indiewire 5 Things You Might Not Know About Alfred Hitchcock’s Masterpiece ‘Vertigo’). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.114.51 (talk) 17:54, 7 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A dolly zoom was used in Frank Capra's 'It's a Wonderful Life' from 1946, one year after 'Spellbound' but long before 'Vertigo'. It is used for the 'Welcome to Bailey Park' sign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:9A80:3E0:9DEE:D9E1:31FA:2108 (talk) 19:39, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Battlestar Galactica

Battlestar Galactica is critically acclaimed and getting very popular; I am surprised that no one has mentioned that this effect is used when a ship uses its FTL drive.

> they dropped that after the mini-series. It worked very well though

Reverse use in The Incredibles

Its nice to know some alternative names that I can use to refer to this effect. I had called it the Vertigo Effect since I heard where it first came from, a wonderful film that I have a hard time believing the people who work in movies had not studied. I first saw it used in a car commercial, where to play up the fact that the car had four doors they use this effect that seems to make the car change size.

Its remarkable when used this way, but I have just learned a new wrinkle. It can also be used effectively in reverse. I learned this week while listening to the commentary on Pixar's "The Incredibles" that the opposite move, zooming in while tracking back, was used by Brad Bird during the scene where Helen, having just learned that Bob was fired some months ago and therefore is not at the conference he said he was going to that she becomes closer to Edna, who has a way of finding him.

The idea in this shot is that he wanted to show these two characters becoming closer, so though they were across the room he used a camera technique that tended to incrementally decrease the perception of depth.

A bow of respect to Brad Bird and the camera animator at Pixar who achieved this shot with a novel inversion of the Vertigo Effect. I have never heard of this variation being used anywhere before.

Brad Bird, who went to Cal Arts with John Lasseter, explicitly credits the invention of the camera move to Hitchcock and Vertigo. Commentary for Vertigo when I first saw it on cable on American Movie Classics also claims that the camera technique originated there.

The effect can be simulated with virtual cameras in 3D animation software, and I have tried to do so since I first learned how it was done. There is a description of the technique on the Siggraph websites under www.siggraph.org/education. Where many of the same terms are attributed to it as are listed in this Wikipedia article, including Vertigo Shot.

I have never been happy with the results of my attempts to simulate it though. There always seems to be some moment where the effect stops or reverses in the middle. I have always susupected that there is some nuance in the relationship between the move and the zoom that requires some specific ratio between the effects or else that I have to fiddle with the motion curves. I begin to suspect now though that it is more a matter of practice and control.

Though the behavior of virtual cameras in 3D animation is very similar to actual cameras 3D cameras do not produce any barrel distortion. To put it another way, in virtual cameras perspective is always linear, never curvilinear. I don't believe that this has any consequences for the effect under discussion though.

-Greg Banville

Picture

Is it just me, or is that picture really annoying Gohst 01:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's annoying. Someone should make an animated gif of the Jaws or Vertigo shot. Best examples.--Cammoore 05:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, the vertigo shot is iconic- that is the one that should be used. Borisblue 06:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Quick and the Dead has some great examples of this shot, also. --Stripes 16:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unprintable article

I was under the impression that articles are meant to be printable. The use of an animated GIF breaks this. I suggest the frames are extracted from this animation and shown as part of the article. -- Andreas Toth (talk)00:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Please remember to sign your posts. There are plenty of other Wikipedia articles that contain animated GIF images. Further, someone new to the topic would find sufficient explanation in the text alone, without the animation. Since it's been almost a year since your comment, I guess it's a dead issue. -- 210.11.135.5 (talk) 05:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actual origins

Hey, I just found this article, and there seem to be a few misconceptions. The article claims that the technique was developed in the 50's with Vertigo, but there are cases of the technique being used as early as the 1920's. (For instance, I distinctly remember the technique being used in Fitz Lang's Metropolis, which was released in 1927. Does anyone have more info on this? Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 23:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A time or scene index would be a helpful reference. If this turns out to be the case, the article could be changed to state that the effect was popularized by its dramatic use in the film Vertigo ...Fredmdbud (talk) 04:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that could be a problem. I saw the film a few years ago, and the version I saw was the ultra-rare Moroder cut, so getting a specific time would be difficult. However, if it helps at all, I know that it's the scene where Freder finds Maria's handkerchief. In the meantime, I'll look for some uses. Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 06:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've found a few sources we may be able to use, but nothing totally concrete as of yet. here and here. I'm still looking for footage, though. Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 06:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I found it! The clip itself is a fan-made music video, but the footage itself is from the film. The video is here, and the scene is at about the 2:43 mark.Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 07:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

small point RE, MATH

MATH as used in a the section title, isn't really a universal term for the word as such, although it doesn't make it difficult to understand i would suggest it was changed to something such as Mathematically, or something similar.

Propose new section: Examples

The Purpose of the effect section seems to contain a lot of examples, and I wonder if these could be split off into a separate Notable uses section?

Done. (I did it before even seeing this comment.) Now it would be good to explain in each example why it's notable. The Lion King is notable because it is an animated simulation of a camera shot. Jaws is notable because it popularized the shot for dramatic purposes. I'm going to add a link to the TV Tropes article "Vertigo effect" for a laundry list of less notable uses. --BlueNight (talk) 17:02, 14 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@BlueNight I agree. The current examples paragraph could benefit from a list of film title, year, cinematographor, scene description. Vertigo, Jaws, all the way to Silent Moon. Theking2 (talk) 20:37, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Jackson & Thriller

My memories are dim, but I recall somehow that the mentioned shot in the video "Thriller" wasn't actually a dolly shot. At least not strictly as described in the article.

What I recall was that Michael Jackson was not stationary during the shot, but stood on a mobile platform. This might make sense if the camera stood on the same platform. This might relieve the cameraman from the task of adjusting focus and zoom during the dolly ride.

Anyway, my memories concerning this specific shot are really dim. I guess there's a "making-of" documentary of Thriller. Perhaps someone feels the urge to track it down and verify it?

If my memory is correct, would the described technique need to be described as a similar method to the "real dolly zoom"? --Klaws (talk) 16:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is mention of The Lion King and the close up shot of Simba. To me, that wouldn't be a Dolly Zoom since there was no camera and no ACTUAL subject or background of which to change the perspective. Since The Lion King was DRAWN animation, I doubt that even a computer did much of it. [email protected] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.63.111.34 (talk) 08:45, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lion King was animated using the computerised CAPS system, which used both digital ink and a multiplane camera simulation. So, basically, yes, a computer did *all* of it.

In any case, does it really matter if it's a simulation or a 'real' dolly zoom if it achieves the same effect? -MarkKB (talk) 04:20, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

New video

I've just added a newly created video with a dolly zoom to the article. I would like to improve this video and am looking for suggestions on how to do so. Useful feedback could include:

Whether there is a better range of movement/angle of view to show of the technique to its best effect.
What background/foreground objects could be used and in what arrangement.
Colour schemes and other artistic rather than technical suggestions.

You can leave comments here or go to commons:File talk:DollyZoomTest.ogv Thanks. GDallimore (Talk) 16:09, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hitchcock

If anyone wants to incorporate this into the article, Alfred Hitchcock spoke to François Truffaut about the genesis of the effect in Truffaut's book of interviews with the director: "I always remember one night at the Chelsea Arts Ball at Albert Hall in London when I got terribly drunk and I had the sensation that everything was going far away from me. I tried to get that into Rebecca, but they couldn't do it. The viewpoint must be fixed, you see, while the perspective is changed as it stretches lengthwise." (Hitchcock/Truffaut, page 246) Davepattern (talk) 11:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone can edit this article. You might find {{citation}} useful for referencing the book and I suggest trying to work this anecdote into the existing prose seamlesly rather than just tacking it onto the end. Happy editing! GDallimore (Talk) 18:08, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Examples

The Commuter (film) at 26:50

Alternative Names section

The "Alternative Names" section is out of hand, with many variations and almost no sources. It was tagged eight months ago for additional sources, but nothing yet. And some what does have a citation is not properly marked (neither cite for "Hunter shot" uses that term, both calling it a "Vertigo shot". I'm going to clean it up, remove anything unsourced. If you can find a source for any of these terms, please add it back in. SixFourThree (talk) 20:14, 17 June 2020 (UTC)SixFourThree[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Rhetorical Practices from the Ancient World to Enlightenment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Engan0518 (article contribs).

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