Talk:Deva Devali

This article was nominated for deletion on 12 June 2013. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Significance

I've added this section from the Jainism section of the Diwali article, following the discussion here. For attribution perposes, the edit history of this section is in that article. 81.141.231.0 (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, forgot to sign in! Moonraker12 (talk) 12:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC) (aka 81.141.231.0)[reply]

I am deleting the whole section of becoz - it speaks of Diwali day and not Dev Diwali day. Diwali falls on new moon of Kartik and Dev Diwali falls on full moon (Kartik Poornima) - also remving the whole Vira Nirvana Samvat. see google book result [1], [2] almost zero results not a single book mentions it as a major festival of Jains. Jethwarp (talk) 04:15, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Diwalifestival is not a reliable and third party source so I have removed it. Jethwarp (talk) 04:20, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Dharmadakhya - the sources you have added are saying [3] and [4] that Mahavira Swami attained moskha on Diwali. Diwali is new moon day of Kartika and Dev Deiwali is Full moon day (Kartik Poornima). Please, go thru AfD --- do not add to confusion again. Jethwarp (talk) 07:30, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article was created by a user not well-versed to Jainism. User intended to create article about Jain Diwali but wrongly named it for other day celebrated during Diwali days by Jain. But now due to this mistake you are editing article, commenting as if whole Jain Diwali is not notable at all. We have already said that name of article should be named to Diwali (Jainism) and that should cover all Diwali days of Jains including this Deva Diwali concept. I don't understand why you are ignoring this point. neo (talk) 11:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have already commented on AfD, that anyone is welcome to start a new page - Diwali (Jainism). But I don't understand why are you people so intent on keeping this article and change the whole content. The title is not correct. Dev Diwali is not a major festival of Jains. It is just that Kartik Poornima is known in Northern India also by name of Dev Diwali - so the title should be redirected to Kartik Poornima. In fact I would be willing to contribute to any new article - Diwali (Jainism). The current title cannot be used for Diwali (Jainism) article because it literally means the day when Deva (Hinduism) celebrate Diwali in heaven - the title tilts towards Hinduism. So it is better be redirected to Kartik Poornima and any one is welcome to create a new page - Diwali (Jainism), where everyone can contribute with only Jainism point of view of Diwali. :@Neo. (talk · contribs) - as you have admitted that user intended to create article about Jain Diwali but wrongly named it - so this is the best way to rectify the mistake, instead of carrying on with mistake - have the courage and heart to rectify the mistake. Thanks. - Jethwarp (talk) 13:55, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One more info - Pilgrims flock Palitana for Kartik Poornima yatra - the article says Jain pilgrims going for Kartik Poornima yatra and not for Dev Diwali Yatra. Jethwarp (talk) 14:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what this is supposed to prove; it is clear from the context that Kartika Poornima is the date of the event, not the name of it. If anything, it gives the name "Shri Shantrunjay Teerth Yatra" to the event. Moonraker12 (talk) 00:48, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sub section

@Jethwarp Perhaps we are saying same thing using 2 different ways. If there is Diwali (Jainism) article then no need for somewhat this duplicate article. But where is Diwali (Jainism) article? If you want to create it then go ahead. The subject is clearly notable. Redirect this page to new article. Why insist deletion of empty page? And if after creation of better article Diwali (Jainism) this page is deleted then I have no objection. I am not fan of empty pages, especially with wrong spelling. Pls create article if you have will to write. Thanks. neo (talk) 16:22, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bulleted list item

Block deletions

What the fuck is going on?
The AfD discussion is still ongoing; so why are you off in a corner deleting the article bit by bit when the matter hasn’t been decided yet? There should be a moratorium on editing here while the matter is being decided.
As for the repeated charge that the article is inaccurate; it’s possible, I’m no expert on Jainism. Are any of you? So here’s a suggestion; If this article is not good enough to cover the subject (and there's no gainsaying it is a notable Jain festival) then I suggest you draft another one in your sandbox and we’ll see. If your article is better, I will happily withdraw my objection to this article being replaced. Fair? Moonraker12 (talk) 00:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted your edits which are related to Diwali day - first create a consensus on what could be added to the article page - and read WP:CIVIL. You have admitted that you have made mistake in naming the page. Why are you asking me to create article - why don't you people create article, you have no business suggesting me which article to create and what I should do or not do.!!! I am just saying the article title is not valid for the subject you are trying to put into it. Just to make my point more clear -You can not create an article which is named as Holi - and put information about something else into page and then fight over it's content. I had already informed at AfD that I have remvd contents which do not belong as per article title. All of you have admitted that article title is wrong so let the article be re-directed to where it belongs. And please read WP:CIVIL and no personal comments (WP:NPA) please. Also there are no restrictions on editing article - if article is not as per Wikiguidelines. If you want a moratorium on editing article while AfD is on - put up your suggestions somewhere else - where policies are made ? Your discussions should be on policy and guidelines only - please avoid personal remarks - like you have made above - What the fuck is going on? - I have had enough of this. - Jethwarp (talk) 02:26, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You have some nerve, lecturing on consensus whilst editing pages that are under discussion to suit your own position. I suggest you read WP:CONSENSUS, not just lay claim to it. As for "why don't you people create article" (sic) I already did; if you think what I wrote isn’t good enough, then you are welcome to do better. If you aren’t prepared to do that, you need to shut the fuck up (that’s a colloquialism, BTW, not an incivility). And "You have admitted that you have made mistake in naming the page"; really? I have said I'm open to the possibility I am wrong; are you? Moonraker12 (talk) 23:12, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moonraker12: I have just seen this page and agree with your comments about what Jethwarp has done to your article, which is now his version, so I don't know why he has tagged his own version. The mind boggles. The original title only had minor spelling errors. I don't recall anyone having admitted anything else, as he claims.

Jethwarp: It appears, you have misinterpreted what has been said about the title, basically in relation to its spelling, nothing else. You yourself have spelled Dev Diwali as 'Dev Deiwali' in one of your posts above, dated 18 June. If that had been the title, it would also have been classed as wrong. It is easy to make minor spelling mistakes inadvertently, as you have done yourself. So why make a song and dance about Moonraker's spelling in the title of his article. It is easy to see what he was talking about. I have said repeatedly that the title, viz. spelling, can be put right in five seconds. No big deal and no need to change the focus of Moonraker's article.--Zananiri (talk) 16:26, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Re; "Diwalifestival is not a reliable and third party source so I have removed it" (here): And I have just put it back. A source is not unreliable just because you disagree with it; if you are unhappy about something raise a discussion, here or at WP:RS. But don't just delete stuff out of hand. Moonraker12 (talk) 17:00, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note to Moonraker12 - I have termed it as unreliable source - because it says - Dev Diwali. For the Jains, it is the day of 'Nirvana' of Lord Mahavira, the twenty-fourth Tirthankara. . Now all [5] other sources say Mahavira attained Nirvana of day of Diwali and that is why User:Neo. who is arguing to Keep the article have created a new page Diwali (Jainism) to put the things as per fact. I have already welcomed the creation of new page, which is factual. Also the concerned websited is owned by Society for the Confluence of Festivals in India and is promotional website. Irrespective of the fact website is promotional or not - it is not parting correct information, which can collaborated with more sources, so it cannot be taken as a WP:RS. Please do your research before giving opinions. I have therefore reverted you edits. Thakns. Jethwarp (talk) 12:46, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dev Deepawali (Varanasi)

Until some editors come up with Jain point of view, this article should be redirected to Dev Deepawali (Varanasi). I can't post this on AfD page due to edit box limit problem. neo (talk) 14:46, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I also second view of Neo. if not redirected to Kartik Poornima other option is redirect to Dev Deepawali (Varanasi). Jethwarp (talk)

Redirected to Kartik Poornima, which covers pan-Indian celebrations. Varanasi article covers only festivities in that city. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 06:47, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh!! Finally, there a view on redirect to Kartik Poornima - my first and even final opinion on AfD was also of redirect to Kartik Poornima which was also view of User:RegentsPark at AfD - so this brings us to CONSNSUS about redirect to Kartik Poornima - Thanks. Jethwarp (talk) 07:33, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]