Talk:Chief Administrative Officer

REQUEST FOR EDITING ASSISTANCE

I notice that the City Manager link on this page is being redirected to a Council-manager government and this is not the same thing as a City Manager / Chief Administrative Officer Occupation.

I would like to get this corrected so the Occupation Category is corect and consistent the different jobs can be catalogued. Government Jobs as Occupations should be clearly definable based on published job descriptions on every government website.

A good idea would be to find the site for the City Manager and replace the current link with that yourself :D. Be bold! GofG _|^|_| Contribs 20:16, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RESPONSE TO TEMPLATE

Netral Writting - I don't see how this is not neutrally written.WikiWoo 20:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Verifibily - Job descriptions should be reviewed on all the cites. Let me know what you don't understand. The links to the 2.2 Million government websites in the google search all agree with these points. If you see somthing different then edit to ADD something youo find important. Everything noted in the article is verifiable. Please be more specific.WikiWoo 20:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you call this unsuitable as an Occupational discription for Wiki?

The objection that this is original research is very silly. I am not writting and an srticle on a new planet I just discovered with my back yard telescope. This is normal public information many people know and everyone is entittled to know and part of the Wiki Occupation or Vocation cattegory.

The template of objections added is basically silly and without substance and more like vandalism that participating in creating a good article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiWoo (talk • contribs)

Thank you for your question. The main problem with the article is that it does not cite to sources. Google searches are not really reliable sources. I suggest that if you want to write about this topic you find a book or article that discusses chief administrative officers. I do not necessarily disagree with anything you have written and believe that you are really improving as an editor here. However, I would also appreciate it if you could be WP:CIVIL. Best, JChap (talk • contribs) 00:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for not dissagreing with the content of my Article. I believe I have provided a good and valid article to describe this occupation. I have read all the Job Discriptions (there are thousands a Government Websites throughout North America and abroad that all say prety much the same thing). I feel that I have all the information I need to publish this work as is. I have no problem with others adding content and pointing out errors, if any. But bald allegations that something is incorrect, unsourced or unverifiable are not acceptable. This is not orginal work. It is a summary to describe an occupation. I can be very Civil, but must note that deleting and critiquing without foundation or doing your own research to counter asserted facts is not a way to be Civil. WikiWoo 00:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to make a few changes to make the article a little more neutral in tone, though. If you want to make the statements stronger, please do some research and cite sources. Best, JChap (talk • contribs) 00:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am confused on you use of the term "Nutral in Tone". This is not about an individual. Its an Occupation. I would like to expand on this job function so that people know the difference between it and others and are not confused by things like an acronym that sounds similar with a completely different job, such as CEO etc.. Or of the fact that it is a newer term recently being applied to replace the age old tittle of City Manager which everyone knows about and may not be aware of the changing term.

And the changes have been made. See if this is a compromise version you can live with. Thank you for doing the research and determining that the use appears to be more common in the public than private sector. JChap (talk • contribs) 00:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

add newer discussion notes above

older notes below

Will, You have a problem with something here put a note next to what you don't understand or are refusing to accept as fact so we can discus it like reasonable men.WikiWoo 00:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chief Administrative Officer From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search A Chief Administrative Officer is used interchangeably as an alternative term for a city manager in Municipal Governments in Ontario Canada. This particular public service management job is often confused with a "CEO" of a business corporation who is an executive with personal authority and control.

There is no such thing as a Chief Administrative Officer outside of Government Administration.

[edit] CAO vs. CEO C.A.O. = Chief Administrative Officer (is a management job without personal liability)

C.E.O. = Chief Executive Officer (is an executive possition with personal liability)

The CAO is the Top Management Job in the Municipal Staff Hierarchy, is the exact same as the City Manager of Municipal Government Administration. The job is not an executive position and needs authority from the Elected Members of Council and must always do what he is told. Has no personal authority to make decisions on behalf of the Government.

The Chief Executive Officer of a Regional Government is the Chair of the Elected Council who is usually appointed by the Elected Representatives of the People. This is the executive job that shares similar responsibilities and personal accountability as a Chief Executive Officer of Business Corporations.

 This occupation or vocation related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

[edit] cites http://www.peelregion.ca/exec-office/index.htm

http://www.city.brantford.on.ca/content/publishing.nsf/Content/John+Brown

http://www.brampton.ca/city_dept/citydept.tml

http://www.town.aurora.on.ca/townhall/dept_admin.html

http://www.city.barrie.on.ca/Content.cfm?C=2278&SC=1&SCM=0&MI=262&L1M=37

http://cms.burlington.ca/English/City-Manager.html

http://www.town.caledon.on.ca/townhall/departments/administration/index.asp#CAO

http://www.city.cambridge.on.ca/department.php?did=10

http://www.region.waterloo.on.ca/web/region.nsf/afedf1d73f0791a185256af00073fa7c/babff750750c70a585256b0e0060071a!OpenDocument

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Administrative_Officer"

Examples of chief administrative officers in private business

Apparently, "chief administrative officer" is also a position in some private companies. See:

The article should reflect this. JChap (talk • contribs) 00:36, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Two out of your four is what you say they are.WikiWoo 05:23, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- - I checked and you are right in that the fourth link refers to the same company as the second. Good catch. The third cite, CareerBuilders.com contains mostly government with some private sector job listings. JChap (talk • contribs) 11:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - thanks for being honest. But you posted four examples yet one of the two was a repeat and the other you say had some non-government jobs, does not have any CAO possitions for Private Sector employers. My google serch hit over 2.2 Million examples vs your 2 yet you don't back off on your assertion that CAO is common in the Private Sector when it's virtually unheard of as a Private Sector Job.WikiWoo 13:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you read it, you see it has some, such as for American Eagle Outfitters. Anyway, I'm not saying they are common, I just don't think you should change the article to say they are nonexistent, especially if contrary examples can be found. JChap (talk • contribs) 13:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- - - - Another thing that bothers me is this aggressive type of attention. We are suposedly trying to expand Wiki, especially in the Job Category, yet there seems to be interest in not expaanding here. Does not make sense.WikiWoo 13:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We should be trying to make it accurate. Please start by finding citations for the changes you made to this article. JChap (talk • contribs) 13:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- I got 2,210,000 hits on Google for "Chief Administrative Officer" and the first hundred I checked are all governmental links.05:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)~

- - I searched with the term in quotations got mostly governmental with some private links, so your belief that they are mainly governmental may be right. If you want to say they are mostly used by governments and not by the private sector, you need to cite, though. JChap (talk • contribs) 11:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- - - I think the problem is that you expect cites to regurgitate verbatum the content of the Article. On the other hand you will delete cut and past jobs.... My additions are put in my own words based on the material found in the cites, and I have provided cites when requested on things that are not common knowledge. Wiki is an independant publication of information and not a summary of other publications. If I put things up you know to be wrong then edit my work and cite your sources. I think the onus is on the person launchinig the dispute to start by citing sources that dispute content and NOT baldly denying something posted for not having cites in the first instance. Cites are backed-up and necessary after something is shown reasonably to be disputable based on some cite your should provide in the first instance.16:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That's not how it works. If you add content, you need to cite your sources by footnotes or in parentheses in the text. Please see WP:CITE, WP:NOR, WP:RS, and WP:V. When you said that CAOs did not exist in the private sector, I was able to do a Google search and determine that was false. If you want to say that they mostly exist in the public sector and are less common in the private sector, fine, but you need to cite a source for that. You might try getting a book on the CAO position and doing research in that if you want to add to this article. If I can help you with anything, please let me know. JChap (talk • contribs) 17:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiWoo 02:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC) never heard of them before... Learn something new every day. They are not the same thing as CAO in Government. The term is rarely used in private sector or I would of heard of it or ran into it sometime in the more than 30 years my expertise and experience span. Nevertheless I have editied the content to note this too. Hope we have a concensus WikiWoo 02:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's why you need to do research before you write the article. Please read: WP:NOR, WP:RS, and WP:V. JChap (talk • contribs) 02:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it is you that should do more research so you can expand and correct articles rather than delete hours of work and research other people do. Wiki should be expanded and not retracted as you would have it by the kind of reverts you have been doing. If we work together to ADD content it might be less frustrating. As Wiki says editors should respect the work of others. You should edit and not blatantly delete without taking care to educate, which is quite insulting.WikiWoo 05:02, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You need to cite to your research in order to add content. Uncited content may be deleted if an editor thinks it is inaccurate. Also, please do not add words to my messages above my signature. I address the comments you made in a different message on this page. JChap (talk • contribs) 11:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]