Talk:Cefn-coed-y-cymmer

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Cefn Coed seems to be problematical:

Rhestr o Enwau Lleoedd / A Gazetteer of Welsh Place-names (University of Wales Press, Cardiff 1957 offers up the single word Cefncoedycymer as the correct spelling. This has long been considered a standard reference work on Welsh place name spellings. Similarly the authoritative Dictionary of the Place-names of Wales (Gomer Press, Llandysul 2007) gives the single unhyphenated version.

Ordnance Survey offers up Cefn-coed-y-cymmer on both its 50K and 25K mapping as a single spelling - no bilingual offer is made, unlike for example nearby Merthyr Tudful/Merthyr Tydfil. Histroic 6" scale OS mapping - see maps.nls.uk/view/101605862 - offers up Cefn Coed-y-Cymmer.

Highway signs on the A465 offer up both Cefn Coed y Cymer (green ‘primary route’ signs) and Cefn coed y cymer (blue-edged ‘local’ signs) again as single language versions on signs which otherwise offer up both English and Welsh alternatives for other destinations. Source - Google Streetview

cheers Geopersona (talk) 07:16, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I boldly changed this because it looked odd and conflicted with the Welsh Wikipedia article. Researching this further, I have found:

Welsh Wicipedia gives:
- Cefn Coed y Cymer
- Cefn-coed-y-cymmer
Archives Wales, The National Archives and People's Collection Wales (three historical archives) and the two books given by Geopersona give:
- Cefncoedycymer
Merthyr Council gives
- Cefn Coed y Cymmer [1]
- Cefn Coed-y-cymmer, [2]
- Cefn-Coed-Y-Cymmer and Cefn Coed Y Cymmer, [3]
Road signs (see above) give:
- Cefn Coed y Cymer
- Cefn coed y cymer
OS maps (see above) give:
- Cefn-coed-y-cymmer
- Cefn Coed-y-Cymmer (historical)

I haven't found any Welsh language sources, however it seems clear that Welsh language versions would have a single 'm', following the Welsh for "confluence". Most of the references to "Cefncoedycymer" are historical, so this may be archaic. It is possible that the modern Welsh language forms were constructed by correcting "cymmer" to "cymer". The capital Y is unconventional in Welsh place names and may be a mistake.

We should list the common forms, but not all of the variants. I propose that we keep the article as Cefn-coed-y-cymmer, and change the start to:

Cefn-coed-y-cymmer (also Cefn coed y cymer, Cefn Coed y Cymer, Cefn Coed-y-cymmer and Cefncoedycymer) (pronounced [ˌkɛvɛnˌkɔɨ̯dəˈkəmɛr]) is a small community [...]

It probably does not help to specify which of these are Welsh language versions. I think the pronunciation does not differ significantly between Welsh and English speakers, and the IPA can be applied to all the spellings. Verbcatcher (talk) 17:21, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have made this change. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:43, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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