Talk:Boelcke-Kaserne concentration camp

Article title

G'day, just looking at this article, it seems to me that Nordhausen concentration camp [1] is a far more common name for this camp than Boelcke's barracks [2]. Google nGram doesn't even register Boelcke's barracks.[3] I believe this article should be moved to Nordhausen concentration camp, or if considered necessary, Nordhausen concentration sub-camp. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:39, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done I initially moved it because it's true that Nordhausen concentration camp gets more hits, but after digging deeper I'm not convinced that this would be a good idea. There was a dense network of concentration camps in and around Nordhausen and published sources are often vague about exactly which one is meant. For example, this Nordhausen[4] is almost certainly a different camp. Sometimes Nordhausen is used as the name of the entire complex, rather than Mittelbau-Dora[5], since it was centred around the city of Nordhausen. The German article is currently called "KZ-Außenlager Boelcke-Kaserne". I think it would be best to pick a name that avoids the confusion around "Nordhausen", but I'm not keen on a German name such as "Boelcke-Kaserne" (which is used in English sources) so I translated it. However, I'm not opposed to a name like "Boelcke-Kaserne concentration camp". Catrìona (talk) 05:34, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

I think the significant difference in Google Books hits (1,400 to less than 50) and the lack of nGram for Boelcke Barracks means that even when taking into account the cluster of camps in the area, this is the one that is being referred to in most cases (ie the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. It is still much more the common name. There is also the issue of naturalness and precision, which this current title does not have. It doesn't even say it is a concentration camp. I could live with Boelcke Barracks concentration camp, Boelcke Barracks (initial caps for both) being the proper name of the barracks. It's not "Boelcke's", it is Boelcke. That is how it would be rendered in English from the German. In any case, it can't stay at the current title as it doesn't meet WP:ARTICLETITLE. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:36, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Moving to "Boelcke-Kaserne concentration camp" as it is described as such, more or less, in most of the English language sources cited in the article, including [6][7][8] and in the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos. Catrìona (talk) 07:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Boelcke-Kaserne concentration camp/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 07:44, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

This article is in great shape. A few comments from me:

• in the lead, suggest "was a subcamp of the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp complex"

 Done

• in the lead, add that the barracks had been used to house forced labourers before other parts of it were taken over for concentration camp prisoners, also link Forced labour under German rule during World War II

 Done

• suggest "From 1942, parts of the barracks" and drop ", since 1942" from the end

 Done

• as Sonderlager doesn't have an article, perhaps just translate it as (special camp)

 Done

• was Mittelbau-Dora a system, or a complex?

The words are used interchangeably in the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, but I've changed all references to "complex" to avoid confusion.

• specify that the SS you are referring to were the SS-TV, and state that they were responsible for the concentration camp system

 Done

• were there only two garages in the barracks, or should this read without the "the"?

 Removed It's not entirely clear in the sources

• do we know what companies ran the underground factories the prisoners were forced to work in?

Mittelwerk Gmbh, which does not have a separate article from the tunnels

• link the two ranks

 Done

• the ill templates aren't very useful, I would leave these names as redlinks and/or create stubs for them (not a GA requirement).

Personally, I like ills and find them helpful, so I'll leave them in.

• suggest "at the Dora camp" a couple of instances of this

I did this at the first instance. I'm not sure it's not necessary at the others, since it's stated multiple time that Dora is part of the Mittelbau camp complex.

• link Auschwitz concentration camp

 Not done—already linked in previous paragraph

• replace "Boelcke's barracks" with Boelcke-Kaserne (a couple of instances of this)

 Fixed

• suggest "evacuated from the barracks"

 Done

• I think the point that the camp included forced labourers that could no longer work as well as concentration camp prisoners should be made in the History section

 Done

• using "the barracks" is insufficiently precise, as there were others types of camps within the barracks, suggest using "the subcamp" as a generic term, or "the Boelcke-Kaserne camp"

 Fixed

• "the death barracks" isn't encyclopaedic, just use "the Boelcke-Kaserne camp"

 Fixed

• link tuberculosis

 Done

• in the note, what or who is Wagner? A historian?

 Added

• link Air raid shelter

 Done

• in what way was the doctor responsible for the inhuman conditions? Surely the commandant was in charge? Perhaps he did not advocate for the health of the prisoners, or something like that?

That's what the source says:

...the SS scarcely entered the camp. This also applied to SS- Obersturmführer Dr. Heinrich Schmidt, who was the camp doctor for a few weeks. His presence is most noted for his inactivity. The catastrophic conditions in the Boelcke-Kaserne subcamp can largely be attributed to him.

• I think note c should be included in the body

 Done

• re: "Russians, Frenchmen, and Hungarian Jews" is this meant to mean Russian Jews, French Jews and Hungarian Jews? Should it be Russian, French, and Hungarian Jews?

The Russians and Frenchmen were not Jews, according to the source.

• suggest putting all four images in the gallery on one line

 Done

• "or died later after the air raid"?

 Done

• what trials were Josten and Kestel tried at?

 Added

• what was the outcome of Schmidt's first trial?

 Added

• hyphenate the isbn's

 Done

• provide locations for all the sources

 Done, except for the Neufeld for which I could not find a location

• the image licensing looks fine

That's me done. Great job with this article, it is important that en WP has articles on these subjects. Placing on hold for the above to be addressed. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:38, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I believe I've addressed all of your concerns. Catrìona (talk) 12:36, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

No worries. This article is well-written, verifiable using reliable sources, covers the subject well, is neutral and stable, contains no plagiarism, and is illustrated by appropriately licensed images with appropriate captions. Passing. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Just a suggestion. If you are interested in nominating this to become a Featured Article eventually, you might consider nominating it for Military history A-Class review as the next step. It will make sure it is close to the mark before you go to FAC. The instructions are at WP:MHR. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:58, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

More than a thousand prisoners were killed

In another place 'around 1,300'. Please integrate.Xx236 (talk) 09:52, 10 November 2020 (UTC)